Spec series?

Agree with the concept that sensationalized "rubbin' is racin'" mentality that the entertainment faculties have not only spurred but pushed in the venue of motorsports have had a negative impact downward in all forms of racing.

I am also in agreement with Randy Pobst (who is quite verbal about the subject) and many others - there is no true excuse for contact - even in good, hard, racing.

That being said, contact is all but inevitable and will happen eventually if you are at or near your limits while driving with other drivers who are as well. It is part of racing, no question. There will likely always be the case where one or more drivers, as Peter so eloquently put it (as he so often does ) don't know or have the skill level to contain their envelope and keep it from overlapping into another driver's area.
I too have been known to give up my position or advantage to avoid contact, as well as maintain it contact be damned. Both ways met with ill will from someone. Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

When racing in the club sanctions where most, if not all monies to support the effort is privatized (especially the further up the expense ladder you get on cost of cars - say Miata vs. Porsche vs. Ferrari vs. historic, etc.), contact is frowned upon rightfully so much more than in bigger budget 'professional' series.

kverges ~ I respect your choice to go back to a 'home' that suits you best.

I have coached drivers who came out of formula cars into sports cars who simply could not deal (psychologically and/or financially) with the realities of contact racing. Many eventually adjusted while others 'went home' to more comfortable surroundings.

Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Pro-Driver, Coach, Instructor & Facilitator
DreamsFulfilled, LLC & rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

Hah! Heck, I can't deal with the idea of going flying! That's why I LIKE fender cars!

 

Had a good friend who was running the old Renault Cup races in an Appliance...

Most of the time he did well and would run in the top 10 and had some great finishes. Good clean racing and fun too. However, he messed up on qualifying once and ended up about 20th in a 30 car field. The bad drivers were all back there and he got hit six ways to Sunday with body damage up the yingyang. The problem was that this was a growth series and part of field thought that if they could do well they were going to get a major F1 contract next year. Since this was supposed to be a "pro" series, there was a lot of pushing and shoving going on back in the pack and IMSA pretty much overlooked it. Funny thing was the guys running near the front were running clean and are still around and doing well. As for the back markers, they never got it and are now long gone. The only problem with a spec series is that the cars are so equal that some drivers think that the only way to get a decent finish is to push like h3!! and that can lead to problems if you get caught up with one of those type of drivers. I don't expect that you are going to see as much of this in some of the spec series today, but since it is an entry level series, you can end up getting punted off from time to time because some of your competitors aren't that skilled.

 

TeamDI ProIT Series is pretty cool, check it out www.proitseries.com based on SCCA Improved Touring

 

well my particular 13 was due to a number of factors. I had a clutch failure before qualifying and had to start the race at the back of a 60-Cup car field. I literally made up 25 positions in 10 laps, but then began to get into the 997 cars (was in an 00 996) and got impatient. Lap times were closer too, so one fellow I was trynig to pass was probaly only a second or two a lap slower, but it was exaggerated on track as he parked it in the turns and blasted off. Well in the final double-apex before the front straight he overslowed for the first apex and I pulled alongside as we approached the second apex. He drove me toward the insice wall and there is a wicked bump. My car stepped probalby a foot or so left and we came together. To give you an idea of how much I slowed to get that far right, I was able to make pit in to the right immediately after contact to take my medicine.

I was told I was at fault and he "held his line." He could have easily driven much more track left and probably out drag-raced me into turn 1. I could not have gone any further right. I probably should have written off the race rather that try to improve my position from 25 to 24 or whatever it was, but for crying out loud the skill in racing is carrying speed in the turns and it was a parade behind this guy, killing my lap times and I just could not stand it.

Earlier that weekend I was hit from BEHIND in PRACTICE and almost got a 13! I was lectured on how the guy was a "pro" and I was in the way. I perceived, rightly or wrongly, a significant political climate for which I also had no patience.

So I ramble and ramble.

If you are going to race and win, you are going to have contact and that is that. You can talk about performance envelopes and fault all you like, but risk is why this is such a challenge and the very greatest have all had significant errors. Prost, Senna, Schumacher, and on and on You just can't leave much margin on the table and be faster than another spec car. Again, I am not taling about spearing somone by being hopelessly optimistic heading for an apex early without slowing sufficiently. But I am talking about both drivers trying to go in a foot deeper than they have tried before because the one who slows first loses the advantage and both cars move a bit extra. That's racing and yeah, a rub may happen.

I have alwasy thought the 13/3 rule shoudl only apply if the 2 competitors are not satisfied among themselves that it was an acceptable racing incident.

But I am obviously a nut job who is OK with a more aggresive environment and who cannot control his car, I suppose.

 

If you had truly "pulled alongside," then you were the victim. If I'd have seen him coming, and coming, and coming, I'd have pushed back by turning towards him, contact come what may, and pointed out afterwards that the body damage was forward of my front wheel, indicating I was alongside and he turned into me... Sometimes pushing back will scare off these eedjits...

Ok, you were doing well until the last six words... Sounds like a little more "shared responsibility" than initially meets the eye. I still think you were unfairly penalized. The issue is (and I have seen no WORSE examples than in P-car races) that competitors are required in most series to "leave racing room."

Than you should not support that climate with your participation. It does sound like you were victimized here, perhaps by your "fast newbie" status, but also because they had their eye on you after the first bump. ALL race officiating is political to a certain degree, just need to find the most consistent environment.

<<snip>>

BS. If you are going to race at the very highest level (of your small pond), you are generally racing with other high level drivers that you know and with some you can respect and rely upon to leave you the car width plus six inches at the limit. It's when you are further back that you get in with the people whose reach does not meet their grasp, which is why you were able to make good progress until you came upon the bonehead.

Sure, a rub may happen, but what happened to you was stupid and exacerbated by bad officiating. There is no question that some I race with in a 13/13 environment USE THAT RULE to intimidate and drive like an idiot, secure in the knowledge that if someone hits them, they will emerge scott-free, but then the challenge is how can I REALLY set them up and if I get excited, squeeze them in such a way that they KNOW I KNOW they're the dick.

Nope. The problem is not in the rule, it's in the enforcement. Even organizations (Grand Am, SCCA RunOffs) who have no 13/13 rule have the same kind of spotty enforcement. They let it get bad, then they selectively prosecute (even though there is no 13/13). Look at Koni!

Nope. I don't think you're a nut job at all, but you're mistaken if your thinking is that because there are no "restrictions" that somehow the driving (or the officiating) is cleaner and less full of chicanery and politics. It's all about making a careful study of the chosen venue and accepting that it is not perfect. Of course, we (drivers) are not perfect either. That's why we keep doing it again!

I had a killer race this past Saturday in front of 25,000 spectators at Mid-Ohio with my good friend, David Clubine, the Canadian Van Diemen importer and the Avon and Dunlop tire importer for North America. The guy's been racing since he was 6 and eats, sleeps, lives and breathes racing. He also has a superb RACING MORAL COMPASS that is extremely rare. I'd like to think I have a similar outlook.

We raced each other hard enough to attract the attention of quite a few National and Pro Series Champions that were spectating who said "you guys were driving those things the way they were supposed to be driven!" I say this not to blow our own horns but to tell you that I went by him IN TURN 11 with three or four inches to spare doing my limit in a low percentage place. I trusted him to be spatially aware. We are both known as VERY AGGRESSIVE drivers, but we haven't touched anyone else (or each other) any time we've ever been out together.

Our cars are spec power, but different chassis, so no one has any power advantage. He got me back later, but we were a full pit straight away from third place by the fourth lap! We were racing in a "restricted" environment, and there was contact among the other participants in our "spec" group further behind, but in the ideal world, close and hard racing can occur repeatedly among competent, front-running friends who respect, admire and leave just the tiniest margins for each other. The better they are, the smaller the margin WITH NO (or very little) CONTACT.

YMMV, of course.

 

A 'pro' should be held to a higher standard, shouldn't they? Secondly, what's a 'pro' doing in club racing?

I agree with Peter. Show your support by taking your money elsewhere.

 

b-mak hits the nail on the head again!

True pros like FChat sponsor Guy Cosmo (as well as Bobby Rahal, Bill Fickling, Bob Leitzinger, who were all RACING at Mid-Ohio this past weekend) wouldn't have made the mistake of hitting someone less quick, ESPECIALLY IN PRACTICE...

Sounds like another "legend in their own mind."

 

"I perceived, rightly or wrongly, a significant political climate for which I also had no patience."


Peter, respectfully, I think this hits the nail on the head. As you know, marque club racing, especially PCA, is its own little universe, with its own heroes, legends, and the like. The bigger picture sometimes eludes - I'd love to now how "pro" the "pro" involved really was. Once you acknowledge that someone like me can easily get a license and race in a pro series, you almost have to add a distinction between pros and pro pros. How's my prose?

Politics? In racing? But I thought it was all based on merit, and the fastest guys (sorry Danica) get the best rides ....

 

Fun debate. I still think contact (defined as cars touching) is inevitable in close spec racing. It should not affect the outcome of the pass effort or cause any loss of control for either vehicle, but a touch from time to time is going to happen. No cars should get spun, driven off track, equipment damaged or the worst - injury.

I have not had to replace a body panel or do more than adjust a tie rod in quite some time, but do have some bump-draft marks I finally got painted. Bump drafting is a whole new debate!

I agree with most everything stated and most important is that I really think spec racing is the best way to race if you want to reduce the amount of vehicle development. But even spec racers work on optimizing the equipment within their take on the rules, another area for debate.

Rent in any class you are considering first to see what you think and then go for it.

 

You sir, are NOT a dabbler. Your pro prose is pretty good!

Nope. Just finished "Crashed and Byrned," comprehensively disproves that theory entirely!

 

All I can tell you is...get fit. You are stepping from a Cesna 170 into the Space Shuttle.


If you ever want to rent a ride contact me. We have a WEST that is competitive in IMSA for rent in the SE region.
Also if you simply want to find out if that is the car for you.

 

my 2c.
if you race close in a spec series or any series for that matter contact can happen. It has happened to me, it will happen again. I race Smack Miata and here is the deal.
The guys I run with I know and I respect. When you race weekend after weekend with the same guys you know their strength and weekness. Better if you run consistent you are usually surrounded by the same guys every weekend. I love racing with them and respect them and their cars. That does not mean we give each other an inch but when we make mistakes we will not use metal to metal to correct a mistake we made. I have raced with guys (and girls) fender to fender for lap after lap. When we got back to the pits I looked over the car had had paint marks on my car for them other cars but the sheet metal was perfectly intact. So close we were trading paint and did not even know it. I love that. Agressive is bad, competitive is often misunderstood with agressive driving.
I use your weekness.
I defend my own weekness (blocking)
I will not give you a position without you working for it (no matter who you are)
I will shake hands with you before and after the race and share a beer in the evening.

I ove racing the Smack Miatas so much that I started renting them. Currently have 5. Love it.