total service and repairs

I started a thread on this very subject a couple years ago

 

I looked into my reciepts last year, and after two years of ownership and doing the work myself, if I was to be paid $35.00 hr. The total maintenance cost for two years would be $17k. But in fairness my 84 GTB needed some love.

 

"Hopefully, over time, when the Ferrari market picks itself up, these costs will be offset by the rising values of these cars."

I wouldn't count on this at all as far "recouping expenses!

It's just like owning a fair sized boat...if you have to pay to have everything done, it's very expensive to own. If you do all the work yourself, it's "reasonable." Labor is usually the main component of most work. If you can eliminate the labor cost, than the overall expenses will be reduced by at least half, more likely a lot more. Of course, some would argue that if you do the work yourself you should calculate whatever your hourly rate is as part of it. Personally, I think that's silly UNLESS the time you are working on the car actually reduces your income from your "regular" job.

An oil change at a shop for my 328 was quoted at 200 bucks (which is cheap! a dealer oil change for my 996 series 911 was quoted at over $300 5 years ago!!!) . 12 quarts of synthetic oil and a filter will cost around 100 bucks. If you don't care for synthetic, it's a lot less.

 

Without sounding like a total elitest....

Anyone can buy a cheap Ferrari
Unless you're buying a vintage classic, 99% of these cars depreciate and will contunue to depreciate like everything else
There is no such thing as a cheap Ferrari
The cost of ownership of a Ferrari is extremely high
A well-maintained one, in the long term, could cost you $1.00 per mile, just for maintenance

Parts are very expensive and continue to get more expensive through the years.

Yes....certain models are less expensive to maintain...and some models are very relaible. But...the cost to take a turd and turn it into a nice, well-maintained, relaible car is well...higher than the cost of the car, initially...in most case after 5-8 years of ownership. Ferrari are great toys, don't get me wrong. Just don't let anyone tell you that they're reasonable to own, even if you do the work yourself.

David

 

Cost of ownership not only depends on the cars needs but on how the owners choose to maintain the cars.

I'll use timing belts as an example. If you search the dreaded timing belt threads, there are constant dissagreements between people that go with Ferrari's original recommendation of changing the belts every 5 years, people that follow Ferrari's updated recommendation of every three years, and then you get the guys that brag about being on their original timing belts after 80K miles and 20+ years of ownership. Which of these guys you are, will affect the cost of ownership.

Obviously, there are no guarantees on old cars, but hopefully if regularly maintained you should have many years of enjoyment and the cost of ownership will be acceptable...rather than reasonable. These are fun cars rather than daily drivers for most of us, so I'm sure many cars F cars are not driven enough for the owner to ever reach cost per mile analysis that would justify its ownership. Its more of a smile per mile analysis that might work in justifying the cost of ownership.

Best regards,
Dino

 

"Just don't let anyone tell you that they're reasonable to own, even if you do the work yourself. "

Well, now we have to get into the "what is a definition of reasonable..."

To me, a 328 is reasonable to own if I do all/most of my own work. But this obviously depends on each individual. If you are looking at it as a normal day to day car compared to a Hyundai, for example, then the cost to operate the 328 is absurd by comparison. But if you are looking at it as a semi-toy that you enjoy "playing" with, understanding that it will cost a lot more per mile than the Hyundai to operate, then it is in a different category...just like a boat.

My 328 has cost me around 1200 bucks in maintenance since August of last year. This includes a fluid change (brake/coolant) which was done by a shop. I put 4000 miles on it since Aug. Frankly, IMHO, that's very reasonable FOR THAT TYPE OF CAR. However, our 2003 Hundai Santa Fe has, in the same period, cost nothing for maint...

 

Well put, although the 308/328 seem to be beyond the depreciation trough. A strong economy might be lifting them at this point. But even for a good, well-maintained, reliable car, you won't recoup those costs. Hopefully no one here is seriously deluding himself.

There is no way to rationalize your way into a Ferrari, and in fact there was a whole class of "flippers" who only owned the cars to buy at MSRP and sell soon thereafter to gouge the greater fool, further down the list, who had to have that year's model. For the rest of us, you probably just accept that the cost of ownership is very high, as David posted. Ski vacations, world cruises, trips to Europe, etc., are also expensive, so it's more a matter of picking your pleasures and paying the tab. For those who want a nice sports car and can forego an exotic, the Porsche 911 is still a great car, and the Chevy Corvette is a great/relatively cheap one.

Also, not to sound elitist, but it's spelled "elitist" in the above context.

 

Well put, Dino, as that's how I "justify" the cost of ownership...

David

 

I never could spell that word...LOL!

 

I thought about it, but figured why? ha ha ha .... we all know the costs are high so why torture ourselves, ha ha ...

 

Yeah, the 3x8 is fairly inexpensive now but you're right, it's like going to some clubs where the entrance fee is small but the cost of the drinks and services inside the the club is much much more. The longer you stay the more it costs and by looking at the tabs, you get an idea how much it would cost you to get in and stay in the club

 

you have to pay to play

 

When comparing the cost of a 308/328 to a new car then I think you might come out ahead. My '02 honda s2000 cost me about $3000 a year in depreciation across 5 years. Actual maintenance was much cheaper, but most people try to sell cars just before maintenance starts increasing.

If you compare maintenance of the 3x8 to an already mostly depreciated car then the expense of the Ferrari goes way up. But there are not many older cars (8+ years?) that I would prefer to drive than the 308.

Aaron

 

Says that guy that not's subscribed...

Just teasing!

 

Hi
I must be an atypical Ferrari owner--I call mine the used subcompact I bought because they wanted too much for a new Dodge.
After almost 2 years of ownership on the 82 Mondial 8 and including new to me later 16 inch wheels and pending tires, I am still figuring the Mondial is about 1/2 the cost out of pocket for payments, taxes insurance maintenance etc over that of the new 07 Charger Daytona I was looking at when decided to get the Mondial. The savings in taxes tags and insurance have just about covered DIY maintenance including starter, and both clutch cylinders and hose replacements and a fair amount of chasing elecrical gremlins. Not counting the $19,000 that the dodge would have already depreciated while the Mondial has held steady value with about 10 000 miles driven.
With the savings I recently bought a new leftover 07 Jeep Compass 4x4 as a rain car.
Initial cost on Mondial and Jeep put together was a touch less than what they wanted for the Charger and the Ferrari is a much better fair weather car and the Jeep a better foul weather vehicle.

 

you got a $10 head, buy a $10 helmet.

 

We own and have owned many exotic cars over the years starting with our 1959 Ferrari Testa Rosa factory race car, and now a lowly entry level 308. In between have been some very rare and interesting brass era vehicles as well. Our most recent purchase clearly on a whim the Maserati spyder I purchased for my wife on valentines day. In the depth of the doom and gloom of the countries financial crisis I spent a considerable sum to purchase that magnificent car. I have never been concerned about making money with the ownership of any collector automobile, and if you enter ownership with that in mind you might as well buy swamp land in Florida. I know that the cost of ownership of the Maserati will far exceed the value of the car.

We have always considered the value to us was in the ownership and enjoyment while driving and or showing these fine cars. We are not concerned about the cost of ownership or maintanence. If we considered the cost per mile of any of our cars, we might lay awake at night in a cold sweat. Being totally realilistic these cars cost a lot to properly keep them on the road. If you can't do the work yourself or have a brother in law thats a Ferrari tech you are going to spend some serious money. This is not a hobby for the faint hearted or the guy with a limited budget. The sad fact is we have purchased a number of projects that got started but did not have the financial where with all to keep it afloat. The value of the car or what you paid for it has absolutly no bearing on the cost of repairs.

Italian cars are high maintence and require high costs of repairs, there is no way around it. When we buy an exotic vehicle we really don't care a fig about the reciepts, records or money spent on the so called restoration. Because everyone has a different idea of what a restoration really is, what difference does it really make what work supposedly has been done. Reciepts can be copied at kinko's quicker than Obama can print stimulus dollars. We plan on starting at the front bumper and replacing or restoring every major system in the car. I trust nobody with their brake job, suspension work or any other major system they have "restored". Buy any car with the realization you are going to spend lots of disposable dollars on your new found baby. You will never buy a collector car, restore it, and make a real profit, yes you might try and fool yourself but the truth is the costs of restoration most always exceed the value of the end product.


My entry level 308 was 10 grand, then 15 grand later the motor was remanufactured, this done in my own restoration shops. To strip and repaint the body, the materials costs alone exceeded $2500.00, this not counting hours and hours of intense labor to strip to bare metal then countless more hours to do the needed metal work before it was close to being ready to refinish. I still have interior and chasiss restoration to undertake. My guess is that once finished my costs will exceed 60 grand. Now who in their right mind would pay upwards of 70 grand for a 2 valve 308? I'm not fool enough to think I can make a buck on this project, nor do I plan on ever selling. I love the work and have the capabilities and employees to do the work and we all enjoy the fun of making a silk purse out of a sows ear. When finished the restoration cost will have exceed the value of the 308 by nearly 3 times. Sounds like investing the the stock market with the same return!!!!!!!

Howard and Candy Musolf
1981 Ferrari 308
Maserati Spyder
2 many brass era cars.

 

Howard, really enjoyed reading your post!

 

That's funny! (good catch)

+1 Exactly

 

@Howard - congrats on what I am sure is a fantastic, fun project.


PDG

 

When I bought my car it came with a large folder and I sat down to total bills coming to £35,000 over a 10 year or so period. That did include a complete resto as well as yearly services etc. This was for a GT4 and is a good example of an owner which didn't do anything to the car - didn't even remove the wheels.

I do my repair work and have a known specialist do the yearly service to maintain a documented service history. They don't charge too much (£65 / hour labour cost), but running any old Italian car from the 70's will cost you a lot if you cannot look after it yourself. I ran X19's and others for the last 20 years and they would have cost nearly as much to maintain if I had a service garage look after them. I built my own workshop garage and skills in order that I could own these types of cars and mending them is a fun pastime - I have a toyota that I don't have to think about and it works all the time

Lee

77 GT4

 

Quote
"I ran X19's and others for the last 20 years and they would have cost nearly as much to maintain if I had a service garage look after them." Lee

Curiousity Question
How many others here have or have had X1/9s?
Are they a gateway car to the Ferraris?
I have noticed that various caps and other parts are interchangeable between the Mondial 8 and the 87 Bertone X 1/9 that is beside it in the garage. And most X 1/9 parts are alot cheaper lol.

Frank

 

Any high performance car is going to require more regular service than a commuter appliance.

And people keep complete service records on Ferraris.

FWIW, I compared the service costs over a four year period for my '88 328 (bought in '99) to the service costs over the same period on an '88 Celica GT-Four ("AllTrac") (The homologation of the WRC car.)

They were just about the same. ....
... being maintained *to the same standard*.

A road appliance is maintained as a "consumable" -- something that will get worse and worse until you replace it after a few years.
Maintenance to that level is cheaper. But that doesn't work on a car tuned closer to the peak. when it goes off, it goes *way* off.

Service on, say, an Alfa is also going to cost more than just keeping a Sentra moving along, more or less.

 

My 308 project has shown me the same facts but one thing that you should take into account is that there is no better way of getting to know your car than by restoring it yourself. It costs a lot to get a 308 back to "new" but after that, you basically have a "real" 308 the way it was meant to be and you will know that car better than anybody else ever could which will be very useful in the many years of ownership to come. Any type of problems that might turn the average 308 ownership into frustration is easily diagnosed by somebody who has done a complete and proper restoration. So if you take into account how much you safe after 10 years of ownership for example compared to somebody who bought a "nice" 308, might be quite significant and you also mustn't forget the pleasure of driving a perfect 308 rather than just a "nice" one. The difference could be quite dramatic. So in the long term the numbers as well as the value of the experience may not be such a loss after all.

Helmut