My First Ferrari ?

^ Absolutely right. From Ferraris to Beanie Babies, its amazing how many people 'overpay' via eBay. eBay is an odd place these days, and remains a murky venue of legitimate, counterfeit, high quality and low quality stuff. Buyer beware. For anything more than about $500, I think 'know thy seller' is the only way to proceed safely.

 

EXACTLY!!!

 

A thread was started in the north midwest section on this car.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249125

Have look.
Regards,
John

 

Take your time and look, enjoy it.

Lots of cars out there and it's a buyer's market for sure.

Bubba made a good point...locate your nearest and most reputable indy-shop Ferrari guru and get to know him!

 

I personally think Ferrari's are easier than BMW. By easier, more enjoyable - they are very straightforward, and the engineering is pure. BMW may use 2 bolts and 2 clips where Ferrari would use a dozen bolts so the Ferrari takes more time, but when you see the care in crafting each Ferrari part, this adds to the joy of ownership, and the time you spend will fly by. Ferrrai's are NOT junky, and I would not call them delicate, 308 drivetrains are very strong. To trash the wiring to hide more serious problems is possible, but seems a bit extreme. Actually, this might make the price sound on the low side?? I'd try and find an impartial (last shop etc.) reference that she ran and probably risk it. Wiring can suck up a lot of time, and this does seem like something a shop just won't want to get into. My point is I spend a couple of days putting in a car stereo to make it neat and not harm any original wires, not many folks would want to pay shop rate for that much time. The present market as a result of the economy does make it a buyers market, and it's always cheaper to buy the most car condition-wise you can handle, but there will be deals out there for folks who can straighten them out. You should count on spending more than the purchase price for A N Y Ferrari to cover basic important maintenance items like major service stuff (timing belts, valve adjust, fluids, hoses, etc,etc).

I've open tracked and hillclimbed my 308 next to ALL of the Ferrari models up to 1994/5, and the performance is great! It takes an F40, 288 or TR / Boxer to pass you under throttle. Big jump in motor size, otherwise, a well tuned 308 all years does very well. In club competitions, the best times were 2V injected cars, and 308 GT4's. The newer cars have more updated interiors, and controls, basic technology evolution in the marque. Find something you'll be proud to own.

Have fun with your exciting purchase.

 

Hmm, the allusion to an interesting CARFAX history doesn't sound good....that's why I like my 5 digit VINs!!

There's an early 308GTB NON CAT red/tan against the fence at my service shop, they say he'd sell it....it's so original the muffler and shroud from 1977 is still there!

 

I highly doubt that this is going to be a fiberglass car. Check to see the if there is an indentation on the rear bodywork where the license plate is. If there is an indentation it is not a fiberglass car. Also check the top of the A pillar. If there is a seem it is a fiberglass car, if not it isn't. Be very wary of anybody that is not telling the truth about a fiberglass car OR is not knowledgeable enough to know what car they have on their hands. All 308's have bits of fiberglass.

 

10K easy. THERE ARE NO CHEAP FERRARI'S!!!!!!!

 

How are we to know? We can't see the car. We can't see if it's complete, rusty, been smashed, a Euro car, runs properly, has a good motor, brakes, electrical, gearbox, clutch, body, interior, has up to date service, good records, isn't leaking oil or water, has working AC, gauges, properly adjusted carbs, will pass smog, has working windows, fans, has all the tools, books, keys, etc, etc.

I think we've been pretty clear in telling you to get it checked out by an expert before you buy it. It's the best money you'll ever spend. It could be a deal and it could be a rats nest.

When you get the report, expect to see at least 10 grand worth of work needed. If you're not ready for that, don't waste your time.

And, if the owner says "no" to an professional inspecton... RUN.

 

Steel cars have a lot of fibreglass parts, front spoiler (usually)...rear lower quarter panels, floor pan (upper under the carpet)....

Put the VIN up when you get it, the North American wet sump 'glass ones are all known and it's a short list, a Euro door plate will be totally different and easily recognized as well....

And yes, a sub $20K car could be a huge mistake unless you are REALLY handy and have a sizable contingency $$$...although a NON CAT 1976 -1977 will always merit inspection.

 

Yes, $20,000 can be a mistake.

First, if the car needs bodywork -- and these cars do rust -- a proper respray means disassembly. And -- to take one example -- on a 308/328 there are window seals that run $800 each (if you're lucky enough to find replacements.)

Next, if the engine smokes or doesn't make even compression, you will be at the not-so-tender mercy of the Ferrari parts catalogue.

Then you can easily drop a few grand into a suspension rebuild.

Finally, 308 electricals were weak to begin with, so finding a clean, dry car with everything sorted is going to save you a lot of aggravation.

If great 308s were $150K and fixers were $20K, we'd all be doing it. But right now great 308s seem to be about $30K-$40K, and dogs seem to be about $20K. Which is why everyone here is telling you to get a good car.

 

LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF REASON AND EXPERIENCE! THIS WILL SAVE YOU A NIGHTMARE. BUY A GOOD CAR AND DRIVE IT AND BE HAPPY.

PS: THERE ARE NO CHEAP FERRARI'S!

 

I purchased a 1979 308 in 1995 and still have it. I have had major services and replaced much on the 30 year old car over the last decade.
Knowing what I know now, from all the money and time and effort, my advice to you it this (and this is what I should have done had I known to do it):

Take $300.00 dollars and go to Tim Stanford Foreign Cars in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Give Tim the money and interview him until your time runs out (which will be a few hours) about every aspect of Ferrari ownership like you are considering (Tim owns a 328 and used to have a Dino).
(A couple of weeks ago I was in the shop a few times and there are 308/328/348/Mondials/Daytonas/ect - like 10 cars and 10 more next door)
He will have engines like a carb 308 or 328 or Boxer engine sitting there in the process of rebuild.
You will get an education that would cost you 10 to 100 times as much, and if you are automotive engineering oriented it is like visiting a 60s thru 90s Ferrari car museum.
You will then get an indepth understanding of the things the guys on the site are telling you, and your knowledge will become wisdom because you will see it with your own two eyes.

You will then be able to determine if you want to maintain the car yourself, or the challenges you might face by doing so. You will not save any money if you can't perform the work CORRECTLY because you just might have to pay someone afterward to fix it. You also will have a tremendous body of knowledge by which to do a proper selection of the available cars on the market, and a person to contact who will give you accurate and reasonable quotes on the pricing to fix anything wrong with it. That will give you a basis to understand the proper value of the purchase. You will then begin to understand which cars represent a true value, and is not a train wreck for your wallet.

After this short and minor investment you will then not need us here at the F chat site.

Remember, you are considering purchasing a 20 or 30 year old "race car". Don't you think after 20 or 30 years you might need a new suspension if you want to drive it like it was meant to be driven?
Don't you think you are going to need some new tires ($2000.00) or new brakes if you want to drive fast. And that right there my friend is 5 or 6 grand of stuff, boom. That is just to get it up to 100 miles an hour. What about your 85 MPH speedo? Whats the point of that? Replacement = $1,000. These cars have 30 year old electrical systems with relays that were designed in the 60s. Don't you think some of those contacts are going to be corroded, maybe the one that turns on the cooling fans when the car coolant gets hot. Oh, that doesn't work? Another couple of grand. Trust me, I know. I was in your position at one time.

My two cents.

 

Curious to see if you had a chance to see the car?

 

Clutch and shift effort don't sound right, especially if everything's up to operating temps.

Has the clutch been replaced?

Shifting in my car, especially 1->2, is stiff until up to op. temps, then smooth and precise. The click-click tactile effect of the gated shifter becomes evident, also.

Clutch effort is pleasantly high and "manly"; feels right for the car. Definitely not beastly like you describe.

Steering's heavy until you begin to roll, then quick and precise.

To use experience with an '83 GTS QV to answer questions about a '77 carbed GTB isn't straight apples-apples, I realize.

 

I've never heard of a heavy clutch in a 308 as a typical or standard condition. The clutch on my 328 is lighter than my Subaru.

As far as the heavy shifting, this is not unusual at medium to low temps. But that aside, there could be an issue with the transmission. When was the last time the transmission oil was changed and what oil was used?

-F

 

Reason I mentioned the clutch is that a couple of cars (not Ferraris) with replacement clutches I've looked at required very high effort...that's the memory that came up when I read your post.

The high shifting effort could be no more than a need for adjustment & lubrication of the distance linkage, but I wouldn't make any assumptions, at all.

If you're interested in the car, get a thorough PPI at a recommended indy shop. $500.00 well spent, especially if it keeps you from making a mistake. I went through $1,000.00 on PPI's before buying my present car.

If you, for any reason, have a deeply bad feeling about the car, walk away before you spend anything. There are plenty of 308's for sale out there.

I hear you on the steering. 80-90 is perfect 308 cruising speed, too bad that's over the top most places.

 

You, my friend, have Ferrari fever. You want a nice 360 at a rather worn out 308 price.

 

How willing are you to provide workarounds to bad electrical issues.
On my Mondial 8 I have a bank of switches and an additiona fuse panel I set up to get around what has burned out on the unobtanium printed circuit board for relays and fuses. I still enjoy the hell out of the car.
On early 80s Ferrari be prepared to spend quality time with wiring diangram and how to work around it when things go sniff sniff.
The electrical issues aside it is a blast to drive even if not the fastest Ferrari in the stable.
And I have a 66 Chrysler I have to hot wire to start still chasing that gremin.