What do you think of rolling back the mileage?

Now what do you have to do to verify the mileage on a car you are interesting in buying? With guys out there like this, who can you trust? This guy rolls back the mileage on your cluster to whatever you like. This just hits me the wrong way. What do you guys think?



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ROLLBACK-ANY-FERRARI-CLUSTER-CHANGE-KM_W0QQitemZ250392870284QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3a4c93fd8c&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1171

 

Not that simple-once the car is plugged in at the dealer, the main computer will still read the actual mileage. The mileage gets stored in the ECM and the only way to reset the mileage without detection is to replace that several thousand dollar unit as well. If someone was getting a ppi done on a prospective purchase at a dealer on a newer Ferrari, this would be one of the first things they should catch.

 

It's illegal and immoral. The next owner gets the shaft. That next owner could be you.

It's theft. Theft of mileage. Plain and simple. Anyone doing it is no more than a common crook in my book.

 

I think it's still illegal. Guys do time for this don't they?

 

I was thinking the same thing. This should be illegal if it is not. I was surprised to see this on eBay. I am glad to know that the ECU stores the actual mileage. How far back does that go?

 

Scary stuff.

The only time I could see rolling back the mileage is if an engine is replaced. And even then it should be noted in the car's history.

 

When I first looked at the 348 I ended up buying, I was told that the mileage was 34K. The odo read 25K. I was shown the paperwork where the speedo had failed at around 9K. It was replaced at the Ferrari dealership in Beverly Hills. So they had all the paperwork to show what had happened. This did not bother me so I bought the car. But I think changing the miles on the odo for whatever reason is just wrong. Even if the engine is replaced, the rest of the car still has miles on it. I think it is just better to keep records of what happens to the car and go with that. The only reason I can see to roll back the mileage is to deceive someone who is buying the car.

 

No way around it, useless not to mention totaly illegal and immoral. I suppose one would need to fudge the dates on all the service records as well so that all will match up. Thankfully one can't do that with carfax reports where mileage is reported each time you get a smog check and or state inspection.

 

Is there an F-Chat member on here from Canada who can tell us if this is illegal up there? The guy is located in Canada.

 

Exactly. If you are buying a car that is currently registered in your own state, then autocheck and carfax can often know if there has been a mileage rollback.

You can still get burned if you are trying to be cute or stupid by purchasing a car that an Owner has never registered with the state, but the moral here is: just don't do it!


Once autocheck.com catches a milegage rollback, the car loses enormous amounts of value, punishing (one hopes) the crook for rolling back the miles.

The Internet Age is a beautiful thing.

 

I took the time to report this listing to eBay. Of course, anything on eBay is difficult in the extreme and I was made to "select" my report from a series of drop-down menus. Nothing will probably come of it. Ferrari are far too potentially costly for this kind of B.S. to occur. While a knowledgeable individual would have a proper PPI performed before purchase (and catch the odometer/ECU discrepancy), someone less knowledgeable may get burned. I love how this guy tries to justify his activities by stating that you can also change from KPH to MPH.

EDIT: It is illegal in CA to alter an odometer "to any mileage selected" by the purchaser. If a change is made (e.g., change of speedometer/odometer unit), the pre-repair mileage must be entered into the new unit and a statement of instrument change is supposed to be issued by the shop.

 

I guess I can imagine a possible, potential legitimate use for this service.

Suppose some electronics fail in your original cluster. Say your car has 24,000 miles. You buy a new cluster, but now the mileage reads 00000. So you get this guy to re-set it to 24,000.

Certainly, I can see the potential for abuse here - caveat emptor - but I can also see how honest guys might replace their speedometer and want it set to show CORRECT miles.

Am I wrong?

 

Changing odometers has been going on since they were invented and it is NOT illegal. It is in fact required in the State of California. If I replace an odometer I am required to set it to the best known mileage of the car so people with this ability are very much needed because Ferrari just blows us off.

Dishonest car sellers are the second oldest profession. Caveat Emptor.

 

It is not illegal. In fact the ability to reset odometers is required. There are times when the state requires it to be done.

My 2001 Explorer with 130,000 miles just had it first smog inspection, we don't have state inspections and it isn't in the Carfax database. How are you going to know what my odometer says is legit?

Is simple, just deal with reputable people and businesses. Same rule that has been in effect since the dawn of civilization

 

Those are changed as well. It is easy with the proper equipment.

 

Perhaps it's all part of a bizarre new sting operation to nab would-be mileage rollback fraudsters?!

I agree though... it's illegal, immoral, and this type of "service" shouldn't be allowed to be advertised on fleabay.

 

Well it IS illegal here in Michigan. In the GREAT majority of cases the intent is to defraud the next owner. What bothers me just as much is in the Corvette "world". There they restamp motors so they can sell the cars as "numbers matching". The intent is to make a prospective buyer believe they are purchasing an original car. Some of those guys can replicate broach marks as well.....REAL CON ARTISTS. You can purchase "documentation" for anything you want to build.......or pass off as valuable.

 

+1
The description is just dumb. Set your mileage back to what it 'should' be is the implication, but why would it possibly be wrong and NEED to be made to a lower number? On the earlier analog units there is a film that breaks when the screws are removed on the odomoter cluster and you can see it when you look at the car after the fact.

BT

 

Yes it is illegal here in Canada for odometer rollbacks. I live in a city where two dealerships have lost their license and were heavily fined for rolling back odometers. It likely happens more often than we believe.

 

If this is a legitimate "correct your incorrect odometer", then this guy simply worded it wrong in his advertisement. When he says "set it to any mileage you like" it comes across as illegal. Perhaps what he should have said is "will set to the correct mileage with documented proof provided by the Ferrari owner"

 

I think it is pretty obvious that this guy could care less if anything is legit or not. He is just trying to make some money. Besides, how hard would it be to whip up some type of papers to send to a guy like this and say "This is what they sent me". I just don't see how this could be done without being abused.

 

Just check this guys Ebay Feedback page and you will find enough documentation about his prior transactions to deter anyone from dealing with him.

 

Attempting to rollback an odometer can sometimes lead to more disasterous effects...
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I just noticed he lowered his price. I guess he was getting no takers. Now a deal at $1,167 (was $1,500). After looking at his feedback, it looks like he must be new to the old roll the miles back game. Wanker.

 

My guess is that changing odometer miles is not illegal untill there is an attempt to defraud the next owner. If someone wanted to roll around in their 100,000 mile Ferrari that said 5k miles on it I am guess that they have a right too. And I dont see anything wrong with that personally unless we are going to start arresting people for owning Ferrari kit cars (which we probably should as bad as some of them are ), or people that change their 348 body panels to 355, or people that put AMG decals on the back of their non-AMG Mercedes, or any other mis-representation that people love to give off...

Its when they try to perpetrate fraud by passing the item off to the next owner as something that it truly is not is, thats when I would think that it would become illegal...But i would guarantee you that their are owners on this forum that have (or have thought about) replacing their odometers with new ones because the car looks so much better to them to drive saying 2k miles instead of 60k...hell, I wish my cars odometer said 5k, instead of 52k like it does!! But I would also bet 99.9% of those owners on here also would not try to 'pass off' that car as a 2k mileage car...and thats where the fraud part sets in....