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Failed Battery kill switch

Discussion in '348/355' started by Saint Bastage, Jul 22, 2009.

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  1. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
    2,548
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Lane
    #1 Saint Bastage, Jul 22, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
    Anytone have any experience with this issue. I've recently had some fairly severe electrical issue's which started as a simple Voltage Regulator problem. After resolving that issue, I had a battery go bad, then a direct short in the alternator rotor. After replacing both the battery and a complete rebuild of the alternator, Rotor, Stator, VR, Rectifyer, and brushes included, I went to start the car and got a simple click at the starter. Assuming the new battery only had a mild charge, I attached the trickle charger to the terminal block in the engine bay. Out of curiosity I tried the key immediately and the car fired. Confusion set in. The charger wasn't on for more than 30 seconds, how could it have modified the battery output that fast?

    A call to Jim at Pocono Sports Car "de-confused" me. It seems that the battery kill switch is somewhat of a infamous problem. It's job is to disrupt the Earth or Negative ground to the chasis thereby shuting it off. When the switch fails to make proper contact your ground can be limited causing voltage fluctuations or non exsistant causing an open circuit. Attaching the charger to the engine bay terminal block effectively bypasses the switch and provides a new ground. Seems simple enough, now that its been explained. Not so simple when its happening.

    The question I'm asking myself now....Did a bad kill switch cause the VR failure, Battery failure, alternator failure?

    Remind me again...why do I need that stupid thing anyway.



    BTW - complete rebuild was 238 bucks and a 24 hour turn around at my local Alternator shop (Bilt-rite, Plainville CT). Those guys rock. The only thing I got back that I gave them was the casings.
     
  2. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
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    Jeff B.
    #2 Miltonian, Jul 22, 2009
    It's hard to give you a firm answer to that one, but I would consider the possibility that you have a problem with the ignition switch. I don't think having a charger hooked up to the terminal block in the engine bay would provide enough of a ground to change the situation with the starter.

    For test purposes, I would run an ohm meter from the negative battery terminal to a good ground on the frame, and see if it reads 0.0 ohms resistance with the isolator switch contacts closed, and infinite resistance with the contacts open. If there is any question that the isolator is faulty, just run a cable from the battery to the frame (and from the frame to the subframe) and see what happens.

    It's quite common for a problem with excessive resistance in the ignition switch to cause a "click" and no cranking when you turn the key, even if the rest of the electrical system is up to snuff. It's intermittant. If that's the case, you need a new ignition switch, or an approved relay to bypass the switch circuit with full voltage.
     
  3. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
    2,548
    Connecticut
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    Lane
    #3 Saint Bastage, Jul 22, 2009
    My test seemed fairly conclusive. Turned the key and got nothing but the click. Shorted the kill switch terminal to terminal and she rolled over instantly. I will keep your suggestion in mind should it happen again.
     
  4. Dr_ferrari

    Dr_ferrari Formula 3
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,073
    Pocono Sportscar
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    Jim McGee
    #4 Dr_ferrari, Jul 22, 2009
    Even a bad switch will read 0 ohm resistance when using a multimeter. the problem is the contact on the switch becomes corroded and only a small portion of the switch makes contact, enough to make a ground but since the contact area is so small, the resistance will increase with the increase demand for amperage when the starter is engaged thus the no start condition. The best way if you need to test the switch is a Voltage drop test across the switch terminals during starting or under heavy load (ie lights on, etc...)

    Regards, Jim
     
  5. Diablo

    Diablo Formula Junior

    Jan 6, 2004
    443
    In front of the comp
    #5 Diablo, Jul 25, 2009
    This is why the new models don't come with one!!

    Also, who wants to reset all of the ECU's when they switch the battery back on anyway!!
     
  6. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
    2,548
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    Lane
    #6 Saint Bastage, May 17, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The Battery kill switch idea worked but briefly. After a week or so my problem returned. I checked everything I could think of including swapping relays with other known working devices. After much brain strain I assumed it was the ignition switch and priced one at Ricambi. (Thanks Daniel) The price was a bit more than I wanted to pay at the time ($675) so I installed a jumper to bypass the ignition using a direct current to the solenoid from a battery lead. The jumper worked fine but was a PITA because I installed it in the engine bay meaning I had to turn on the key, pop the bonnet, press the moment switch to start the car when the iggy switch didn't feel like working.

    After seeing the resolution to the electrical nightmare plaguing a fellow FCar owner I decided to commit a few hours to resolving my starter issue. Its getting a bit embarrasing opening the engine bay to start her up. I started to trace wires in the hopes of finding a pass to thread the bypass into the cabin. Found a set of speaker wire that appeared abandoned in place....Hmmm....followed them to the cabin and started disassembling the console only to find an aftermarket alarm system installed but not operational. I thought perhaps I'd use the speaker wires for my bypass. I figured I'd better get that old alarm out while I was there. Followed wires to the termination or source determined the probable use, and dissassembled as appropriate.


    Guess what I found near under the dash near the ignition switch?

    Wait for it.....

    A friggen ignition relay installed in series with the ignition switch that was not looking healthy. Cut the F%*&$%@G thing out and spliced the ignition back to original.

    Guess what...it wasn't a bad ignition switch....she works every time just like she's supposed to.

    Now...what to do with the remains. I thinking bonfire with beer....lots of beer.

    Anyone want a used Alpine car alarm. It works great, my car was never stolen.
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  7. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    #7 No Doubt, May 18, 2010
    Car alarms are for insurance companies. In contrast, *drivers* need cars to be as reliable as possible (for which, simplicity can help).
     
  8. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,788
    Ontario, Canada
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    Mike
    #8 AceMaster, May 20, 2010
    What a mess....good thing you discovered and took care of this.
     

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