Going to Use Different Oil in Dino, Comments?

I just finished reading all 10 chapters of Dr. Haas' oil write up (posted on here somewhere).

It is very compelling and has me rethinking what I'm using in the Dino (now use Castrol 20-w50).

After reading , I'm thinking of going to a 10-w40 or even a 10-w30 mineral oil along with a little extra ZZDP since the lighter oils don't have enough.

He suggests you should have ~10 PSI per 1000 RPM warm.

Hard to know what the PSI is accurately when all you have is the dash gauge.

All my driving is low stress, low traffic outings with a few near-redline sprints after well warmed up.

 

I use ZDDP in my Dino but I stayed with 20-50, I wanted to switch to a oil that several friends have recommended but it only comes 15-40 and I thought that was too thin, now I read this and wonder.

What do you think of www.classiccarmotoroil.com ? no extra ZDDP needed, its in their already. I would love to run synthetic but I leak oil too much already (my car thinks its British, probably from sitting next to 2 old Brit roadsters from the 30s where they leaked extra to keep the chassis from rusting).

Why are you thinking 10w ? I read the same pages and did not get that impression from them.

 

I can only tell you what the mechanic told me, again and again when I grilled him on different weight oil, synthetics, etc.

USE 20w-50 Dino oil.

Let me REPEAT THAT USE 20W-50 DINO OIL!!!

it's been in the car for the last 30+ years, and it seems to work pretty well. If you want more ZDDP, use motorcycle oil or diesel oil, or high mileage oil, I think all have more ZDDP in them.

Also your car has brass guides for the valves, which as I recall, means ZDDP is less of an issue. But I could be FOS on that one.

YMMV,

DM

 

Hard to argue with this.

 

So Dave, what you are saying is you think it would be a good idea to try a lighter oil?

Oh, and BTW, when I sent the original sample to blackstone they said it was 10w40 in Ol' Stinky!

 

Start up issue where all the wear occurs. 10 weight would flow tons better.

 

I'm no expert, but I didn't think that there was much difference in "flowability" (I just made that word up) between 10W and 20W, except at very low temperatures.

I'm sticking with GTX 20W-50 and ZDDPlus additive.

(I think that the ZDDP issue was pretty much beaten to death in another thread.)

 

Then they are morons, or you changed the oil? And Ol' Stinky? Are you making a reference to the fine aroma of petroleum distillates?

We ALWAYS put in 20w-50, I can show you the jugs!! Oh wait, that may push us into the bikini thread.

And yes, I'd suggest trying 0W-60 full synthetic, it'll run tons better on that.

DM

 

I thought your wifely-unit named it Ol Stinky. Or was it Ol Smelly?

Yup, when I got that report back and saw they declared it to be 10w40 I knew you wouldn't like it.

I suspect Algar just threw in what ever generic crap they got at K-mart, probably pooled all the left over open containers from the K-mart service dept.

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052&highlight=oil+aehaas

 

I use Shell 0-60 Helix in Dino Competizione without issues.

 

You guys (except Napolis..LOL!) need to look at the info again, the FIRST number is "flowability" and not the 'weight" ..

So, as Jim points out, a "0" is the best you can do, there....the engine nameplates on my 308GTB wants a AGIP "10-50W", not a common US product...

So a 5 -50W is the closest I have come to it.

Uro and I are in the Deep South so the tried and true (for 350 Chevys!!) 20-50W does okay, but if cold start flowability was a concern (up North) we'd probably be doing real world damage.

All the oil 'sheers down" as Dr. Haas's work shows, so Jim's choice of a 0 -60W is a real good idea, IMO.

Cold weather flow, and after running hard it ends up very close to the 50W the engines were spec'd for originally.

My engines showed a noticable drop in PSI whenever I loaded them with a 10-40W.

 

Actually Haas says the opposite, it thickens and thats the problem: waxes and sludge.

Further he suggests the lower pressure means better flow which is what lubes and cools.

 

How many miles have you put on it?

I assume most miles were under pretty severe, i.e. racetrack conditions?

 

About 2K so far. About 1K Track/Historic Targa Florio.

 

What I don't care for is to get a wide viscosity spread, a lot of those oils are loaded with pour point depressants to get them to the low side and then viscosity index improvers (VII) to get the higher number. The 0-60 is probably moreso. In the end it is all about trade offs. Pick your poison.

 

Royal Purple gives me 20 - 50W by the case and my old motors don't seem to mind it......but we are 'warm' all year long here...downright HOT these days.....

 

if what you are worried about is strictly startup wearing, instead of a lower weight oil you could try a engine pre-luber.

I bought one to use on my Dino and ended up putting on my boat motor since i used that much less often.

http://www.autoenginelube.com/ is one I can find with a quick google, there are other brands of course and I don't remember the one I bought.

 

Hi,

I use 76 20-50 High Performance in my Dino and in my historic race cars (GTA, Abarth). I find this a very good oil, very sticky (good for car that is not used every day), high temp resistant, no loss in oilpress etc.

Any other who have experience with 76?

What kind of oil do you use in the gearbox? In Abarth I now changed to Red Line MTL, the weekend race will tell if it's good. www.chgp.dk

/ Bjorn

 

The replies posted here divide into those who have read Haas's articles on oil and those who haven't. If you haven't I highly recommend that you do, and would be interested to hear your comments afterwards.

What Haas says makes perfect sense and I haven't seen any disagreement with the data on which he makes bases his articles.

In a nutshell the points he makes relating to the OP are:

1. Most damage (90%) to the engine occurs on startup, however warm the climate you live in. This because ''there is currently no engine oil thin enough to operate correctly at startup'' (Haas, ch3 , 2nd para)

2. A synthetic oil will always be thinner than the equivalent grade mineral oil at startup. In really cold weather this becomes much more significant.

3. ''The only downside of synthetic lubricants is the cost'' (H pt3 last para)

4. ''All manufacturers I have seen are specifying 0W-XX or 5W-XX oils now.... These are appropriate for all engines of all ages of all levels of wear'' (H ch8, p5)

5. Select the appropriate high temperature grade (last number) for your car by the 10psi per 1000rpm rule. You will have to compromise between mild and high speed use unless you want to keep changing oil. Why not fit a temporary proper oil pressure gauge to establish this? Remember to look out for the setting of the oil pressure bypass valve, and check at what rpm it cuts in.

It seems to me that a 0W-30 synthetic would be a good starting point unless you take it on the track

 

Please forgive my asking the pragmatic question, but when was the last time anyone experienced an engine failure owing to a poor choice of oil? In any car?

Did anyone happen to catch the documentary on CNBC concerning the oil/gasoline industry. They followed a gallon of gas from the ground to the consumer. Of particular interest was the truck driver, hauling one of those highly-polished double-rigs with 8500 gallons of gasoline picked up at the refiner's distribution depot. He first stopped at a Texaco station, then a Shell, then an Exxon, and so on. The reporter asked, "What about the various claims of each gas company?" The driver responded, "They all use the same gas....the gas that I deliver to different stations all from the same tank, all from the same refinery." After watching this I tried to remember whether any of those gas-tanker trucks ever have a company logo on them (Shell, Exxon, Texaco, etc.). I can't remember ever seeing a logo on these trucks. They are simply polished stainless steel.

Do you believe that engine oil is any different?

Jim S.

 

500K+ miles over 38 years in many exotic cars, nope.

 

Jim - Now include the daily drivers...48 years of driving...1 million miles....never happened.

Jim S.

 

Gasolines differ in composition by region. http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/Files/US%20Gasoline%20Map%20100102.pdf
And they differ by point of sales. The base gasoline coming out of the refinery might be the same for the area but the additives like Techron for Chevron/Texaco are added later.

As for engine oils, take a look at virgin oil analysis (VOAs) at BITOG and you will see they differ by basestocks and additive packages.

 

At least on the typical "run" made by this gasoline trucker (as followed in the documentary), he filled the station's underground tank with what was in his rig, then moved on to the next station, be it Exxon, Shell, Texaco, etc. No additive differences as it entered the underground tanks.

Jim S.