Help Please: Opinions on theis 360... | FerrariChat

Help Please: Opinions on theis 360...

Discussion in '360/430' started by pj1, Aug 3, 2009.

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  1. pj1

    pj1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2007
    48
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Peter
    #1 pj1, Aug 3, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
    Hey guys, I've been looking for a 355 for almost a year, and have recently decided to step up to a 360 instead. This beautiful Rosso Fiorano Spider is available near me in the Bay Area:

    http://www.ferrarisiliconvalley.com/cars/inventory/preowned/2001-ferrari-360-f1-spider-rosso-fiorano--black-125688.aspx

    Since it is pre-2002, I am verifying that it is up to date on all campaigns. I have examined seemingly complete service records, and all services were performed at Ferrari of San Francisco, including a 5K and a belt service. Then in June of this year, it had to have its engine dropped due to a burned exhaust valve. Along with the offending valve, two pistons/liners were replaced for "excessive wear," and all valves and valve seals were replaced, reassembly, testing, etc. All this work took two months and to the tune of $20K.

    The car is a real stunner, and of course I'd get a PPI if I decide to go forward, but I'd really be grateful for the opinions of experienced board members, in particular:

    -- Is the kind of engine failure noted above "normal"? Should I steer clear of a car with this history? Or is it a good thing that the car is now seemingly fully serviced at the seller's expense?

    -- In all other respects the car appears to be in exceptional condition. Does the $110K asking price sound reasonable? I'm thinking $100K might be more like it in this market, but maybe that's low (all assuming that the engine out service is an acceptable condition, of course)

    Any informed opinions welcome! Thank you. --peter
     
  2. chrmer3

    chrmer3 Formula 3

    May 19, 2006
    1,719
    USSA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Stunning color.
    Very nice. I would start in the 90's.... Times are tough & see how hungry the dealer is.

    Did a bad exhaust manifold inflict the engine damage? The exhaust manifolds are becoming a common fail item... check to see if they have been replaced on the service orders...

    What kind of warranty are they offering on it? Since its a dealer & some work has been done- I would guess it may have some warranty on the work they just performed...

    Again tho- she is a beauty...


    Good Luck with the hunt and yes jumping to the 360 is what you need to do, one helluva ride!
     
  3. pj1

    pj1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2007
    48
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Peter
    #3 pj1, Aug 3, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
    Thanks Chrmer3,

    No record of manifolds being replaced. I plan on calling Ferrari of SF to talk about the service and I'll find out if there is any warranty on the engine work. The car is being sold by another Ferrari dealer and it is on consignment so I imagine the owner has final say on the price. But at this point, I'm mostly wondering if I should be concerned about the recent major service, and whether it might be an indication of more bad things to come!
     
  4. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    105,279
    Vegas baby
    I can't tell you about the car but the color and interior choices are both rare and beautiful. You won't find another one like it easily.
     
  5. allen_993

    allen_993 Karting

    Jul 3, 2006
    179
    Alabama
    Full Name:
    Allen
    It is indeed an attractive color combo, however, not a popular one...I also think you should be in the 90's...
     
  6. DeLuca

    DeLuca Karting

    Mar 22, 2009
    71
    Way to much money and the color is nice , but bad for resale .
     
  7. pj1

    pj1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2007
    48
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Thanks guys,

    Color, as always, is a personal choice and I agree something in the high $90s is probably right. At the moment, I'm more preoccupied with the engine service. Have others experienced this kind of engine trouble? What could cause a burned exhaust valve? Could this be indicative of other problems down the road? Thanks for any info...peter
     
  8. fc2

    fc2 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Nov 2, 2006
    5,263
    Silicon Valley Ca.
    Full Name:
    Frank C.
    I can't comment on the valve issue... I just don't know.
    You can ask the FoSV guys if the car qualifies for the Power warranty Ferrari offers on some used cars. Given the car's age, I doubt it, but it's always worth asking.
    Frank
     
  9. duskybird

    duskybird F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 20, 2007
    12,559
    29 Electoral Votes
    Full Name:
    Bill B.
    I'm personally not a fan of red cars but........................Rosso Fiorano on a 360 is gorgeous!. The burnt valve could have been the product of a failed manifold, bad injector etc. I'd be a little concerned about the rebuild depending on who did the job.
    Good luck.
     
  10. RSQP

    RSQP F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2005
    18,451
    California
    Full Name:
    Boudreaux
    I suggest you call the service department at FoSF and ask them what their warranty is, and how they'll back it up. I can't comment on the source of the problem, but from the sound of it they may have only addressed the symptom as some of the other users here have mentioned potential manifold problems.
     
  11. adrenalater

    adrenalater Karting

    Dec 8, 2006
    126
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    Jeff Stevens
    To state the obvious, the exhaust valve got too hot. Factors that can result in excessive combustion chamber temps include a lean air/fuel mixture, too much ignition advance, detonation (from insufficient fuel octane, not uncommon in CA), extended high rpm operation coupled with one of these factors, valve float (the exhaust valve hangs open rather than returning to its seat, so it can't shed heat into the cylinder head casting), and other factors that elude me at the moment.

    The burnt valve is the result of some other engine problem. I would insist on evidence that the underlying cause was both diagnosed and corrected. If it was, and the engine repairs were done carefully and thoroughly, I don't see any mechanical reason to avoid the car. But ... this car definitely has a story that will follow it from owner to owner. No worries for the buyer/keeper, but the touch and go guys may want to avoid it.

    I looked it over a few days ago - it looks beautiful in person. But black leather and convertibles do not make an attractive combination for me. I'm not into rump roast :D.

    Jeff
     
  12. pj1

    pj1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2007
    48
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Thanks guys--I talked with the FoSF service manager today and he didn't know why the valve failed--not a "super common," circumstance as he put it. He thinks the most likely explanation is that the part simply failed. He personally wouldn't have any qualms, and thinks the rebuilt engine is a "plus." I guess I prefer a no stories, car myself. Oh well, the hunt continues...will keep you all posted and thanks again for the useful info, as always.
     
  13. DerWebMeister

    Aug 21, 2007
    119
    Columbus, OH
    Full Name:
    Timothy
    I think you can't go wrong buying a car with 20k worth of work done. It could be 10 years of trouble free driving from here on! Especially since they replaced cylinders and liners, you know everything else looks good inside. Plus all those gaskets and seals are new. A no stories car could easily need that internal work, who's to know? That kind of extensive work being done would seal the deal for me.

    I'm still waiting and searching...
     
  14. wolfe F360

    wolfe F360 Karting

    May 7, 2009
    195
    Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Wolfe
    Looks like a fantastic car! I just bought a 360 about 6 weeks ago at Ferrari of Atlanta and my car price was in the 80's and it was a 2001 and fantastic condition. So I think you could find a cheaper one
     
  15. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2007
    1,993
    Ponchatoula, LA
    Was it a spider like this one, or a Modena?
     
  16. pj1

    pj1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2007
    48
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Thanks guys, yeah I'm torn because, though not for everybody, I fell in love with the color combo and it has great options. It may well be that the service is a good thing but I'd feel better if I knew what caused the damage. I've been coached by the forum to avoid a "story" car, but I may do a little more digging here--this car is under my skin!

    I think it's tough to find a low-ish mile Spider with good options in the $80s even in this market, but we seem to be heading in that direction...
     
  17. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    105,279
    Vegas baby
    #17 TheMayor, Aug 5, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
    Don't worry about "stories". You'll have one yourself in 6 months. As long as the car was fixed correctly, it's a plus, not a minus. Anything could have caused the damage. It's not a common inherent problem of 360's so it shouldn't matter. It's over and done with.

    I think when people say "don't buy a stories car" they mean one with a serious crash, a flood damaged car, a car that was repo'd, a car that doesn't have a service history, a car with an obvious mechanical problem or warning lights on, or a salvaged title. Still, people do pick up these cars. They all don't go to the crusher.

    Buy what you like. I'm not telling you to buy this car but I am saying: buy what makes you happy. It's a lot of money so buy the car that is worth that money to YOU.

    In a nutshell -- you're worrying too much and not thinking enough. You only have one thing to fear... fear itself!
     
  18. allen_993

    allen_993 Karting

    Jul 3, 2006
    179
    Alabama
    Full Name:
    Allen
    It's your money, but I still think high $90s is too much for that car...
     
  19. wolfe F360

    wolfe F360 Karting

    May 7, 2009
    195
    Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Wolfe
    it was a modena but while I was there they had a syder for 85 but it sold in just a few day when they recieved the car.
     
  20. pj1

    pj1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2007
    48
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Guys, many thanks once again for the plethora of advice, personal experience, and opinion that makes FC the incredible resource that it is. I talked to another service manager at FoSF today and he feels that the engine damage was mostly likely caused by an improperly seated valve that eventually failed. He feels confident that the engine is strong and reliable after the rebuild. He said that a bad exhaust manifold would not have caused the problem.

    Will keep you posted on what I decide to do...cheers...peter
     
  21. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2007
    1,993
    Ponchatoula, LA
    As long as you can get them to warranty the powertrain for a year or so, I'd go with the car if it's the one you love.
     
  22. chrmer3

    chrmer3 Formula 3

    May 19, 2006
    1,719
    USSA
    Full Name:
    Chris
    +1

    If the dealer is really that confident she is good as new, let him warranty it. That will reveal how confident he is about the car when he is financially tied to it. If he back tracks - you have also have your answer to your gut feeling.
     
  23. pj1

    pj1 Rookie

    Sep 20, 2007
    48
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Hi guys, the engine work comes with a one year warranty, from June 2009-June 2010.
     
  24. DMaury

    DMaury Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2007
    1,993
    Ponchatoula, LA
    Well then, pull the trigger! :) And drive the snot out of it! :)
     
  25. BT

    BT F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 21, 2005
    15,291
    FL / GA
    Full Name:
    Bill Tracy
    I think that car in the 90's would be a great buy. The color combination is really a plus, and I would not have a problem with a rebuilt engine (condsidering it was done at a factory shop). The interior is awesome!
    :)
    BT
     

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