I am pretty confident that 99.9% of Ferrari drivers could not push the Scuderia to its limits. Obsolete is the owners reaction time and sheer guts of the driver! Wow that straight line stat means so much and the new gear box that sounds like a M5! Stradale /Scuderia fierce extreme super cars on their worst day!
You have clearly not driven the scud's F1 system at speed. No head bobbing, but a rifle-shot to the back. I love manuals too. I keep a Porsche just for its manual thrills, but scuds system is something else. I am not sure the dual-clutch system will gain much performance over scud's, yet the visceral experience of the brutal up/downshifts might go missing. Yes, cruising around town 458 will be way better than Scud. No doubt about that. So what.
>> Wow that straight line stat means so much and the new gear box that sounds like a M5! M5 uses SMG, not DCT (I think). Ferrari's new box will make SMG feel like it's from the steam age. >> You have clearly not driven the scud's F1 system at speed. No head bobbing, but a rifle-shot to the back. True, I have not driven a Scud. Hope to get the opportunity soon. I think the Scud is the most exciting sports car built to date, and I'm dying to try one. Nevertheless, Ferrari's engineers will not remove the rifle shot experience from the new box. But I bet the new rifle shot will feel slicker and more satisfying than the current one. Guys, I'm in no way dissin' the Scuderia. I really do think it's the most awesome sports car ever made. My personal preference is for the GT3 (mine's a 996 RS), but that's because I use it as my daily driver, I love manual, and I like flying under the radar - people just don't notice the 911 much. But for a Sunday blast through the back roads, I can't imagine a more fun car than the Scud. That said, it is my opinion (to which I assume I am entitled) that the robotized single-clutch gearbox will be relegated to history where it belongs (once again, just my opinion). And that one drive with Ferrari's new box will be quite convincing. Time will tell.
I am curious about the reaction to the new tranny. It is smooth and fast. Does it feel like a sports car feel? That is the question I have. I like the fact that the scud lets you know when you shift. The new tranny is so smooth that you barely feel it if at all. I've heard a lot of complaining about the new cars and this is a great big change.
Warren, I think you need to go try that Scud out and then come back and tell us what you think. I have a sneaking suspicion that you might change your "tone" just a tiny bit. That shotgun blast to the back is incredibly intoxicating. I have driven the California with its instantaneous shifts and although impressive in its own right, I still prefer the Scuds more violent and visceral gear changes. I do hope you are right about Ferrari not refining the 458 so much that this "shotgun" blast is lost. But seriously man, go test drive that Scuderia.
It really is. And the Italia is "suppose" to have the same gearbox?? I hope Ferrari finds a way to tune that feel into the 458.
I have to throw my 2 cents in, have owned F430 and now Scuderia, shifting experience is completely different. There is no way one can comment on Scuderia based on observations from the F430. One draw back to dual clutch technology is added weight, 2 of everything.
i bought my Scud few weeks ago knowing the new 458 is just few months away ! for me the Scud felt like a tailored fine suit made specially for me and my personality. i love racing and tracking and the moment i tested one on track i felt so comfortable throwing it into corners and just make my way out. and i said to my self man this car is so confidant, and then it hits me i knew im getting one. besides i still drive my 360, and each time i start it i fall in love with it again and again even so i own faster more powerful newer exotics! i guess im careless about obsolete and im sure many do when it comes to how they sees the cars they own... not how they want others to see the cars they own. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Same transmission in very general sense,more like the same idea and type but with a drastically more radical execution. 458 is not going to be a boulevard cruiser,most likely even more hardcore direction then the car it replaces (430). My dentist bought a California for his (Automatic only)wife,as a great alternative to the usual SL/XKE,etc. He would not even consider 458 (thanks God)....
I will try a Scuderia as soon as I find the opportunity, that's for sure! For you guys worried about the 458 feeling like a California, I seriously doubt it. It's software that decides just how hard and sharp the twin clutch systems make their shifts. Drive a 997 Carrera S PDK with and without the 'Sport+' option. The difference in shift feel is enormous. Without Sport+ the changes are tame, soft even. With Sport+ the PDK box provides a very satisfying rifle shot. And I believe the 458 will be sharper still, as the Carrera is not designed to be hard-core.
I have a 2008 M3 with the DCT for over a year now. I have driven the SMG II, SMG III BMWs, the Cayman and 911 with PDK. The dual clutch transmission is boring, it lack the kick from the SMG and F1. The SMG from BMW are slow, very slow, the F1 in the Scuderia is extremely fast Personally, the best sequential I have driven is the one in the Scuderia, it doesn't upset the car on turns, and it shifts better than the PDK and DCT. On boring driving conditions (regular street driving) the Scuderia F1 is not as nice as the PDK/DCT, but when you want performance driving, it works very well. So far, I regret to have bought the M3 with DCT, and the PDK from Porsche is a worse design than the PDK, it shifts by itself at redline, and the ratios are not close enough. And yes, the Scuderia is obsolete, so is the Stradale, Enzo, F40 and F50.
I agree and I feel a different term should be used, "succeed". To succeed a prior model is not the same as to obsolete a prior model. It seems that Ferrari has things finely calibrated. When the 430 came out, the extra HP and improved e-diff still only brought it up to the level of the CS. Numerous formal and informal comparisons had them roughly the same on the track, while the CS was still a more enthralling car on the track. Given the increased weight that goes along with the standard model configuration, despite the increased HP, it seems likely the 458 will be similar to the Scuderia; while the Scuderia will retain its more raw character. I suspect the real successor will be the 458XX, in 3-4 years, but that will be priced accordingly. Consequently, there will be a line of volume V8 cars: 355, 360, 430, 458 that one can buy from $50K to $300K; while there will also be a limited production line of street/track V8 cars: Challenge Stradale, 430 Scuderia, 458XX that one can buy from $150K to $350K. The GTO, F40, F50, Enzo, FXX, etc are their own line and the fact that a Scuderia will probably equal or outdo the earlier cars in the supercar line doesn't make those cars any less desirable. IMO, people who describe this process as "obsolescence" are comparing paper specs (which is particularly silly when one of the cars isn't even released yet and won't be for another 6-9 months) or car reviews and aren't thinking about the cars themselves, the pleasure of driving them and the reality of owning them.
And thus it becomes the perfect car. I love my wife very much, but everyone needs space. Mine just happens to be behind the wheel.
The Porsche PDK system needs to have the sport chrono option fitted. In sport plus the box will not shift up at the redline. It will simply hit the limiter and bounce off it repeatedly until you lift off the gas or change up manually. The changes are pretty savage in sport plus compared to the shift pattern in the sport mode. As SpeedGeek points out it's all about software programming so I'm confident Ferrari will provide us with a great shifting experience with DCT on the 458 which will change with the manettino settings.
big mistake saying 430 scuderia obsolete now ?, i seen today 458 photo and they don,t look to hot it already having bad feed back almost is bad as the California did, i,am glad I got my scud. and whats to compare to.
How does the F1 of the 360CS FEEL relative to the 430 and the Scud? I know it's "much" slower, but how would you describe the difference in street driving?
Take a look at the Car & Driver article in the 360/430 section. The Scuderia shifting can be "luxury-car smooth or snappingly quick." The CS is and never was luxury car smooth. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests
My own subjective impressions: - CS had two modes. In sport, shifts were slower (300-500 msec) and software seemed to try to smooth out the changes but was not perfect, maybe as good as a typical driver. In race, shifts were fast (150 msec) and downshifts with blips were a thing of beauty; you had the impression that if you were absolutely perfect, you might get such a shift in once or twice if you had a manual/clutch, but the reality is that you probably couldn't. - 430 was supposed to be a similar firmware as the CS, but I had the impression that it was trying to be smoother and neither mode felt as "racy" to me in comparison, even though they were supposed to be. Perhaps that was just the extra sound attenuation and less aggressive exhaust notes. - Scud also seems to have two modes, smooth and what has been described as "rifle shot" fast (supposedly 60 msec). When trying to be smooth, I don't think it's as smooth as an automatic or DSG, but it's pretty close. In fast mode, it's superb, it bangs the shifts up and down faster than you can blink and you feel the jolts but the entire action of shifting is blended together; when doing so you know there is no way you would ever be able to do the same thing; it is superhuman versus just better than human. One thing is that in being so fast, you lose some of the downshift blip that seemed so perfect in the CS; it just seems to get cut off or doesn't have time to register with your aural senses. In general, the timeline for things happening seems faster in the Scud than the CS and the speed of the F1 Superfast2 helps set the faster beat.
