Kimi unmoved by 2010 speculation **SPOILER**

In 2008 Massa didn't exactly have all the luck on his side, not by any standards. In 2007 he again had some bad luck at a crucial point in the season, up until which he was on the same level as Kimi points wise. Because of the bad luck Ferrari went for Kimi to go for the WDC and Massa helped him.

I don't consider Massa a #2 driver. Maybe it started like that, but he has shown he has the goods to be a #1.

 

You're right. Massa didn't have any good luck to help him in the first two races where he spun out by himself and didn't score any points.

Was this the same season where Kimi was having to learn a completely new car and new team? Masssa simply didn't do a good enough job that year (like every one of his previous seasons) and ended up having to help out his team with the WDC for the #1 driver and with the WCC for the team....something a good #2 does. The same thing happened in '08 where Kimi was helping Massa to win the WDC...except Massa simply wasn't good enough to secure the title even with Kimi's help. In '07 tho, Kimi was good enough.

That's fine. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

That's fine with me too. And I disagree with your whole post

 

Yes I guess if you look at "the book" (the point results) Kimi is the better driver.
I dont. I look at their driving skill and motivation, not points accumulated per race or season.
When Kimi was at Mclaren he brought the stuff to each and every race. We got to see a taste of that in Spa this year and especially last.
Some drivers are more motivated than others. Alonso and Vettle are the standards.
Massa while being good is not great. As I said before the start of last season he can win a WDC if he keeps his head, excels on the tracks that suit him, and finishes. He was second driver in the best CAR which is the key. If #1 drops the Standard he will pick it up and carry it to victory.

Ferrari can do better in driver selection than with one lacking motivation the other lacking cutting edge skill. Both very good but not the best.
Alonso and Vettle are the two hot properties with LH tied up.

 

07; Wasn't that the year of Kimi's "miracle" pass on Massa ?
The year that Mclaren gave away the championship ?

In years down the road when the topic of "the guy who didn't deserve a championship" comes up KR's name will be on the list.

 

Yep just like Massa's "miracle" pass on Kimi las year. We saw how well Massa capitalized on that.
Btw, if you're stating that team orders negate WDC's then nearly all WDC are invalid.

They cheated and still couldn't win.

Just like Alonso's, Schumacher's, etc... So what?

When the topic of "drivers who were the fastest in F1 and should have easily been at least a 3xWDC" comes up Kimi's name will also be on that list too.

 

we'll see. But right now, we need someone to rebuild the Scuderia. And i think Fred, if not, Vettel are the men to do it.

 

Why? just because you like them ?

Vettel is still young, and has a lot to learn; give him some time.

Alonso, well, I know a lot are fantasizing about the guy, but hey, second year in a row
at renault, and still no results, looks like it takes more than that to bring back a team to the top.

 

You have no idea how much i dislike Alonso. He's a whiny cry baby, but a good one on track. He gives it a 100%. Now matter hoe $h!tty the car is. Everyone recognizes the fact that ever since Schumi retired, Fred is the most complete driver out there. I dislike Fred, but i agree on the analysis.

Second year and no results? What do u expect with the stupid in season testing ban rule?

Vettel...young? Young and proven. No one expected him to drive a former Minardi team to victory in the wet last season. Thats WDC material. Sure, he definitely will improve over time, but then again, who doesn't?

 

So, same rule for everyone.

I don't think the problem at Ferrari is coming from the drivers seriously.
We won the 2 last championships, and the biggest problem we had were reliability problems,
and some pit stops screws.
this year we just missed the car, and that's thanks to that 2009 2 rules season.

So really, I don't see how Alonso is going to prevent hydraulic failures...

Our drivers are extremly good and fast, give them a well born car and they'll bring back victories. the constructor title and one of them the drivers championship.
Kimi doesn't care for N°1 status, and thanks to that Massa can compete equally for the title.

What's going to happen if Alonso joins ? felipe will be back to Barrichello mode.
so drama guaranted at Ferrari...

 

Oh come on Dave. Didn't deserve it? By your own admission he is better than Massa. I think he is the fastest guy on the grid. Don't put him in the same category as Jacques Villeneuve. If anyone, I would put Jenson Button in that category, if he wins the WDC this year.

 

You LOOK at their MOTIVATION? LOL! What are you smoking?

 

+1

Kimi is performing in a crap car. I would love to see Kimi and AF next year in the same car. would be almost like Senna vs. Prost and probably bring real excitment into F1 again.

if we let Kimi go, we might be complaining next year why we let him go.

anyway you don't know what you've got until its gone.

Andrew

 

I'm going to stand by those words.
Kimi did not win the WDC. LH lost it. Along with Massa's team order to allow Kimi's pass which was the last points (2) needed.

 

Its fairly plain to see in their efforts on the track.
Case in point Fisi's last race.

 

From your armchair via Speedchannel TV? Right? Keep on dreaming...

 

Thank you, somebody had to say it...

 

Thank you and add to that enough of the insults to others.

Carol

 

+1

You nailed it.
We know he can do it....but will he do it?

That is why I want Alonso to replace him, because Alonso wants to win every race even when the odds are at their worst. I used to hate Alonso but I have to admit he has the determination of Schumacher, and that is something Kimi will never have IMO.

 

+1000

That Ice Cream thing was very un-professional.

 

I agree yes, But thing is, I really doubt Kimi is the right person to motivate, be a leader to the team around him. He doesn't have MS's caliber. Not one bit. Thats something ALonso has.

Testing was allowed in 2007 and 2008, yet we all know how Kimi performed. Dont get me wrong, i do support him still, but i think he's not the right guy for the job.

He suddenly wakes up with 5-8 laps to go and sets the fastest lap...way down in 6th or 7th. That proves the car is not crap. The F60 probably is, but definitely not the F2008. Massa proved that.

I'm still rooting for Kimi this year. I want him to win at Monza, and wherever he can this year. But i'm not bothered where he'll be driving next season. I just hope Alonso replaces him.

 

Do you hear everything Alonso says before a race?

Always saying that winning is not possible, and just scoring a few points would be great.
doesn't sound like "wants to win every race even when the odds are at their worst"

When Kimi just says: "with the actual package we just can realisiticly aim for third place"
People say is a F** unmotivated bastard...

 

As far as i'm concerned, Alonso is speaking the truth. He had a bit bad luck this year, Hungary, and Spa, to be specific. Other than that, the Renault performes as bad as it looks.

 

As mentioned in the previous post Alonso is only speaking the truth, and he still drives to win (even with what he has to work with).
(IMO) I have not seen a driver push a F1 car harder on a regular basis (other then Schumacher) in the last 10 years then he has, and to me that is what Ferrari needs. Even more so when testing time rolls around. I just don't think Kimi will ever be able to offer Ferrari what Alonso could and probably will.