Acceleration: F40, F50, Enzo, CGT & Veyron | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Acceleration: F40, F50, Enzo, CGT & Veyron

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari/F80' started by Bill S, Aug 30, 2009.

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  1. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #51 Bill S, Sep 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Why not scientific? This is a mathematically-correct simulation based on real test data and matches what we've seen on the road and track when the cars are driven as hard as possible. See the video of the Scuderia vs. the CGT in this thread. These simulation results predict that outcome. If you added an F40 to that race, it would be just a partial car behind the Scuderia.

    BTW, I did get a 1991 R&T where they got 11.7 @ 126.5 for the F40. I updated the table with that data. That data puts it closer to the Scuderia with nearly the same 60-100.
     
  3. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    The F40 has lower drag than the F50. That's the primary reason it eventually catches and probably passes the F50. The F40 was designed to reach 200 mph with less than 500 HP. It was not designed for large downforce.

    Luckily I do have data from C&D to run a longer race. I'll see how long I can go.
     
  4. ScreaminRevs

    ScreaminRevs Formula Junior

    Apr 4, 2004
    411
    Chicago
    If my memory serves, the '91 issue of R&T F40 that turned [email protected] was a european model tested on its home soil; the U.S. car was a tad slower as they made some reference to it having a tad less power and also a heavier curb weight, though they didn't specify numbers. I don't have the issue handy, so maybe someone else can quote it verbatim.
     
  5. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Pretty good memory! It was the September 1991 R&T "World's Fastest Cars" issue. All cars needed to pass the European smog test in 1991, and all cars needed to have catalytic converters. So it probably was a European car with a cat, and not a US car.
     
  6. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #56 Bill S, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's the race results for an F40 racing an F50 for 26.3 seconds from a dead stop. Both cars reach about 170 mph and the F40 is just a car ahead of the F50... so they are essentially the same.
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  7. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #57 Bill S, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's the results of the super cars racing from a dead stop for 10.3 seconds. At the end of the race, the Enzo is going 130 mph.

    Please ignore my previous race starting from 60 mph. Those results are incorrect. I had an error in the start time.

    The Enzo is only 10 cars ahead of the F50, and the CGT/Enzo and F40/F50 are within one car of each other.
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  8. furious_ferrari

    furious_ferrari F1 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2005
    3,160
    Vancouver, Canada
    Full Name:
    Phil
    Hey Bill,

    1)What is the motorbike that is chasing the cars in the youtube videos you posted?

    2)It would be nice to see the Mclaren F1 road car put into the mix of those numbers. It was the old "pinnacle" of supercars as the Veyron is today. Id like to see its comparison to the Enzo, F40, F50 etc.

    Thanks!
     
  9. rossocorsa13

    rossocorsa13 F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2006
    2,557
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    Outside of Bill's info, I would reference Top Gear's drag race of the Veyron and F1 in the latest season....

    It may not be as scientific as what Bill has done...but it's certainly a pleasure to watch. A bit surprising as well. :D
     
  10. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    1) That's a Turbo Suzuki Hayabusa.
    2) R&T tested a US McLaren F1 in 1997. It is slower than an Enzo and CGT:

    0-60: 3.4
    0-100: 7.7
    60-100: 4.3
    1/4-mile: 11.6 @ 125 mph

    I'll see if I can find the full road test to add to the chart.
     
  11. furious_ferrari

    furious_ferrari F1 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2005
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    Phil
    That race was all for show. The Veyron would have pulled on the Mclaren right away in reality.

    I would just like to see the numbers in comparison to the others.
     
  12. furious_ferrari

    furious_ferrari F1 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2005
    3,160
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    Phil
    Turbo Hayabusa! Nice!

    I believe the test that road and track did in 1997 on the Mclaren F1 was the Ameritech converted Mclaren F1. The Ameritech US-spec version has some bodywork enhancements to pass NHTSA crash tests, but it is also slower than the original European model.
     
  13. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #63 Bill S, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I realized I had some track GPS data for the Enzo to 170 MPH. So I could simulate a race between the F40, F50 and Enzo for 20 seconds from a dead stop.

    After 20 seconds, the Enzo is going 170 MPH and is 24 cars ahead of the F40 and F50, which are about even at 20 seconds at about 155 MPH.
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  14. furious_ferrari

    furious_ferrari F1 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2005
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    We dont really realize how much faster the newer supercars are until we see diagrams like this. Thank you Bill!
     
  15. bcmarly

    bcmarly Karting

    Mar 6, 2004
    61
    #65 bcmarly, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Folks - I believe this is my first real contribution so I thought I would make it count. This same issue of R&T tests the 550M, the 456 GTA and the F355 Spider. If you are interested, I can scan them for you. Also the US test of the McLaren is a euro conversion and is not really exemplary of the F1. I've driven this car in Europe and it is a force to be reckoned with. Thanks
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  16. rossocorsa13

    rossocorsa13 F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2006
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    Nice! Always loved that extra long first gear that pushes it to just above 60 mph....remarkable.
     
  17. furious_ferrari

    furious_ferrari F1 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2005
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    Id love to see a scan of that issue of the Euro Mclaren. PM me also if you are willing to sell it.
     
  18. bcmarly

    bcmarly Karting

    Mar 6, 2004
    61
    I'm not sure I still have it, but I will check for you. Are you a big McLaren fan?
     
  19. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #69 Bill S, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I believe Autocar magazine is the only independent source for a non-US McLaren acceleration test. The "US" car tested by Road & Track is slower.

    But, for fun, I'll race the Enzo, Veyron and "non-US" McLaren from 0-170 and see what happens.
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  20. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #70 Bill S, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is the updated chart with the McLaren F1 added. Remember this is a non-US car without catalytics. The R&T test used a US-emissions car which is much slower.
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  21. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #71 Bill S, Sep 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And THE race... Enzo, Veyron and McLaren F1 (no cats) racing all out for 20.3 seconds from a dead stop. And the results...

    ... F1 11 cars ahead of the Enzo...

    ... Veyron 20 cars ahead of the F1.

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  22. furious_ferrari

    furious_ferrari F1 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2005
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    yes, BIG fan!
     
  23. furious_ferrari

    furious_ferrari F1 Rookie

    Nov 25, 2005
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    haha great race! Thanks Bill!
     
  24. fat cab

    fat cab Formula Junior

    May 20, 2006
    931
    ST.LOUIS,MO
    Full Name:
    tim c
  25. bcmarly

    bcmarly Karting

    Mar 6, 2004
    61
    I've got the original F1 brochure that I could have professionally scanned for you. Also, if you want to invest in the new road car, I've got the prospectus.
     

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