Is the 355 based on the 348?

I think the 355 body kit for the 348 would outsell 1000:1 the 348 body kit for the 355.

Of course, I hear the Fiero to 348 body kit is quite popular...

 

i think that is a great idea

 

Just got back from my frontal labotomy.....Im ok now.

 

Hi,

Actually super cars like the Enzo often reuse more components than large production cars for which it makes sense to invest a lot more. How much money does a firm make by selling Enzo, Veyron, or old super concepts such as the Porsche 959? We know the answer : not enough. These cars are necessary to maintain the elitist image of the brand.

My understanding is that the Enzo reuses the head design of the Maserati V8, itself modified alla Ferrari when Maserati came in the group. So finally it's a pretty old design that works well on large engines.

Another point of view, not considering cost: The Enzo's engine delivers something like 650hp, an amazing power. But when you think about it this gives 108 hp/liter in a 2002 top of the range super car... nothing so amazing especially when we consider that in 1995 a 355 would deliver the exactly same power/liter.

The 5 valve per cylinder is an amazing design that a lot of constructors have tried to develop and keep on their cars. Only Audi as far as I know as a good, reliable design on the small 1.8 and 2.0 turbo engines. Jaguar, Bentley and Aston have tried, but decided not to use such a design because of the complexity it involves on the lifting if you want to keep some material and enough room to have oil and water to circulate around.

Motorcycle engines are not comparable. Even if Japanese are probably better than Italian for making strong metals (I can hear my best friend who owns two Maseratis always complaining against the poor alloys used in the cars) a motorcycle is so light that the constraint on the crank and rods are ridiculous compared to what a car imposes. Those who tried to install a GSX-r engine in small cars have experience how long (actually short) they last.

It's tough to make such engines and transmission and Ferrari dares. I love Ferrari for that reason.

 

If Top Gear is correct, the Veyron costs ~£5m per unit to make but is sold for ~£850k. I couldn't get my head around that at first, but then it occurred to me that significant income must be generated by the sale of:

• video game image rights
• posters
• models
• mouse mats
• mugs
• books
• DVDs
• jacket patches
• stickers/decals
• hats
• shirts
• the possibilities go on...

So really, this car wasn't a technical exercise 'just to see if it could be done' at all - it was the central theme and critical component of a calculated business plan. Providing the car was the most powerful, and demonstrated the highest top speed, and they made enough to sell a handful, then all the merchandising to be bought by those wanting some small portion of the car's glory to dream about suddenly becomes very valuable to Bugatti.

As Bugatti aren't really making any other cars, it's not as if they really have a production line of supercars/sportscars for which they must maintain an image of prestige... they're purely a hypercar company. And I doubt Bugatti's owner Volkswagen gleams a lot of prestige for the Golf via the Veyron, so that can't really be the reason behind doing it.

The business model of Ferrari seems much more traditional - but I wouldn't say the hypercars are made purely to maintain the prestige of the brand. I doubt the F40, F50, or Enzo were sold at a lower price per unit than each cost to manufacture. Having said that, it's probably the volume of sales for 'production' models that carries the majority of the company's profits and funds F1 racing.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Good post. Your right, but also don't discount the formidable amount Ferrari makes on branding/product licensing. Ferrari calls it "solde trovati" which means "Found Money" and they said in 1998 that they earn 50% of their yearly profit from it ($28M in 1998).

 

Imagine how much "found money" they made 10 yrs later in 2008!!

 

It wasn't just the 355 that borrowed from the 348. Check out the first Enzo prototype below. Plus look at the 458's wheel, side mirrors, and rear side window area.
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I agree .......... the 348 makes a great 'workbench' ..............

 

Good points, I'd overlooked that.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Hi Andrew,
>I doubt the F40, F50, or Enzo were sold at a lower price per unit than each cost to manufacture

I agree with you, and that's why I believe they don't spend too much engineering on it. The V12 on the Enzo is a reuse of existing design; while a large production engine like the 348 or 355 leaves a lot more room (time and budget) for engineering.

Usually supercars are kind of ideal products, but rarely innovative: nothing in the F40 nor the 959 had been invented especially for the car, they reused good safe recipes to build the cars.
While on the 355 for instance, they had to design a new pair of heads that kept the F1 spirit and would make the car drivable, reliable and to comply with emission regulations.

My two cents, but I could be wrong.

 

You are not wrong ........ the 355 is awesome .......

 

Ok, I'm new here but I think I can already mark you as the 355 taliban

 

More like a purveyor of truth ............

 

+355

He speaketh the truth...

 

More like the Brotherhoods Public Enemy #1

 

the 355 taliban???

 

Hey Luc,

I think that's pretty well reasoned, actually. Good post!

Didn't Gothspeed used to have a 348? I seem to recall watching some really good 348 videos that I was sure were posted by him...?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

...... never had a 348 .......... that nero one in the vids belongs to Vince ....... we have been in the process of ridding it of its 'chronic 348 anemia' ........ so far we added about 15 RWHP ............ but since then I have flow tested quite a few 'cats' and have found a set that outflow those we initially used on his car by a very big margin. The new ones flow at least as good as a very expensive 'brand' commonly used on here. So we are looking forward to dyno validating any gains from that upgrade ......

 

Interesting... looking forward to further posts/videos on that then.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

What I initially thought to be athread that posted a rather obvious answer, turns out to produce some very informative and entertaining thread. I guess anytime you pit 348 vs 355 Themes the fireworks always come out!

 

It's always funny to even entertain the possibility that the 348 compares in any way to the much superior 355.

The truth of the matter, and most people feel this way, is that the 355 is in an entire different class of supercar than the regular sport utility 348 which is closest to the 308/328.

 

No sheit,.. me too!!!

 

A properly sorted 355 is quite a wild car, yet will still have 100 fewer horsepower than the 348 Competizione LM's (which ran and finished well at 24 hours de Le Mans in 1994).

Even some of the non-LM 348 Competizione's had 360 hp from the factory.

Ferrari claims that the 355 weighs less than the 348, but that's not true. The 355 has a larger motor, more valves, more transmission gears, air bags, power seats, power active shocks, power steering (which saps away engine hp), power electric emissions air pump, some have F1 pumps/computers, and some have power convertible tops.

The 355 also has less torque at low and mid-range rpms than even the basic 348 TB and 348 TS.

More weight and less torque means a slower initial start.

The 348 is a more basic vehicle. Manual seats. Manual top. No airbags. Passive shocks. Manual steering. This makes for a machine that is easier and less expensive to maintain...an important consideration if you are racing or drifting.

 

Everything you bring up is well reasoned and true. However, it distracts from our singular mind distortion rally where we must convince all 348 owners that the 355 is superior in every way!