dealer sold me salvaged turbo no disclosure

I recently purchased a 1996, 993 Turbo with 2670 miles. I have driven the car less than 100 miles since it was delivered to me within the past few weeks. The car was advertised as follows,
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)

 

It really sucks that this is happening to you. Make sure that when is safe that you post the vin number and do tell us what dealership did this to you. Hope everything works out fast and in your favor without much trouble.

 

Took me 30 seconds thru GOOGLE to find the ad from Canepa............you'll note the car is marked sold.

http://www.canepa.com/inventory/collect_1/993%20Turbo/index.html

"This Turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past thirteen years! It was special ordered in “paint to match” Polar Silver, with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console.The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 in the past year and is in NEW condition."

 

I recently purchased a 1996, 993 Turbo with 2670 miles. I have driven the car less than 100 miles since it was delivered to me within the past few weeks. The car was advertised as follows,
“This turbo has only been driven 2670 miles in the past 13 years ! It was special ordered in “paint to match “ Polar Silver with FULL black leather interior, sunroof, and “werks” center console. The first owner kept the car for three years driving it a little over 800 miles a year. He only drove it for pleasure, never in bad weather, always kept it garaged, and had all the scheduled service performed. Because of its great condition and exceptionally low miles the second owner purchased the car for his private collection with the intention of keeping the car just as it was and not adding any more miles. It has only been driven 500 miles in the past year and is in NEW condition.”
I thought I found the perfect 993 TT I had been looking for. Unfortunately I found out 6 days ago that the car was involved in a bad accident in Virginia in 1998, was given a salvaged title, declared a total loss by the insurance company, and sold off to somebody else at the appropriate price considering the condition. I am not going to mention the name of the dealer here as there will be pending legal action against him, but it is a high-end dealer that routinely deals in exotics and classics.
I have spent the past 6 days confirming the salvaged history with the Virginia DMV as well as the body shop that repaired the car over 10 years ago and speaking with multiple people that were familiar with the history of the car. I provided all this information along with 18 detailed photos showing all the signs that the car was not original to the selling dealer. My expectations and my request to the dealer was to return my funds, purchase price, shipping, and tax in return for his car back. The dealer has continued to refuse and has only pretended to tell me about “light accident history” before I bought the car. Considering I paid 2x the price of what a salvaged car would be worth and considering his ad above, I don’t think it takes Sherlock Holmes to figure out he is lying and concealed from me any damage other than a “scratch” he claimed was on the fender at the time of delivery and repaired by Porsche before the first owner would accept it.
The car changed hands 1 time before this dealer bought it and because of some DMV issues ended up with a clean title before this dealer acquired it. I don’t want to debate here or make my case if the dealer was disclosed the salvage history because I want to save some issues for court, however the fact that the carfax shows it, the car if looked at shows it (and he claims to be an expert on Porsches) and he is now pretending to tell me about some accident history all has some clear implications that he is 100% full of ****.
Only sticking to the facts above I would love to hear some feedback from some fellow enthusiasts as well as anybody with a legal background how everybody thinks this will play out in court. Thanks for your feedback in advance and everybody should take the time to use carfax in the future, I wish I had.
(And yes a “werks” center console when translated from Scumbag to English means a phone kit where the owner removed the phone over time)

 

I am sorry that you are dealing with this when you should just be enjoying your newly bought car. In Illinois a dealer that sells rebuilt or salvage titled cars must disclose this in a special form to the retail customer or whole seller. However, since this title has been "washed" by some one through some sort of a process (it would help to know who and how it was done), the dealer who retailed the car to you may not be obligated to disclose any thing that it not clearly stamped on the title. It does not mean the dealer had no knowledge of the previous salvage title. It may be hard to prove they did, but not imposable. All large operations (dealers) have a service that they use to make sure the title is a clean one before they buy or take any cars on trade. They pay a monthly fee to Carfax or another outfit (forgot the name) that would tell them any if the car you bought has issues with the title. I believe that they knew about this, but thought they may not need to tell you, as the title no longer states that the vehicle is rebuilt. What I would do is subpoena the bill of sale the dealer has on file to see where they bought this car. See if it was disclosed to them at the time of sale. You can also contact the party that sold them the car to see if they disclosed this issue with the title. Also find out who the reporting agency is that they use to screen titles (Carfax or ?). See if they have an account with them. They most likely do and used it to screen your car. One last thing. No one on earth knows more about this car than the dealer you bought it from (I won't mention their name here). They are Porsche specialists in a big way. They have a reputation to hold up. If you need a attorney that specializes in litigation of this sort, let me know.

Geno.

 

Yes I am also surprised the dealer has no motivation to maintain their reputation. I wont disclose everything I have learned about what the dealer did or did not know in this forum because I want to make sure I have some special surpises for this clown in court.

 

Wow, I am sorry to hear that! I have a 993 TT and it is one of my favorite cars of all times! The fact that you paid $$$ for a low mileage car makes it that much worse. Just wondering did you run a carfax first, or have a ppi? There is obviously legal action to be taken- though I am sure you have better things to do.

 

there is another thread on f-chat that has canepa doing something less than above board. i will look for it and attach it in my next post.

on another note, they seem to be selling the ex- brad frissell imsa gtu datsun 240z. that may have been my car in 1984 and 85. i need to call them and have them review the log book.

sorry for your troubles.

pcb

 

Hindsight is always 20/20, in the words of one of my lawyers. "Believe - but check!"

I always run a Carfax before I ever consider a used vehicle - I don't care if it is coming from my best friend. Many of the suggestions on this Board include having a PPI done.

Hope it works out well for you. If you are not able to get your money back, maybe the repairs were done correctly and you will have a nice running car.

 

fry em.

could be construed as Felony Theft by Deception.

good luck to you.

another dealer on my do not buy from list.

 

thanks for the headsup, I appreciate you giving everyone a warning of what they potentially face in dealing with this guy...your situation is ironclad, he is nailed.

 

This is really too bad. I've read quite a bit about Canepa's work on 959s in the past. Hope everything gets cleared up for you soon!

 

If I remember correct. This car was for sale a few years ago and at that time it was disclosed in the ad that it was Salvage.

 

yes I have reason to believe everybody in the chain of command disclosed it up until canepa sold it

 

I bought a Porsche 968 coupe in 2001 from a dealer in IL. they didn't disclose that it was a salvaged car. I found out when I traded it in for a Boxster in 2003 when the company that bought it wholesale from the dealer I got my Boxster from did a carfax. When I called them about it they faxed me over the "No Warranty paper" where they told me to sign (there's like 10 lines under the paragraph to write/sign). So under my name it stated "Salvaged Title". B.S.! that wasn't there when I signed originally. When I went to my paperwork that page was conveniently missing from my stack of papers. Plus they sold me the car without having title to it! Bought it on 12/22, got the title finally on 5/1 after calling them a bunch of times about it! Jeez. Sorry about your situation, that sucks.

 

Did the way salvage cars get retitled change at some point?

There are clearly cars that exist with currently clear titles, that at some point were salvaged. Do some states allow this? Was it done differently in the past?

There must be millions of these cars around. A car with salvage stamped on the title is tough to insure, etc. But cars that were at one time salvage, and now "clear" are insured all the time...

If cars that were salvaged ALWAYS had a salvage title, CARFAX wouldn't exist. I suspect that huge numbers of cars, have been salvaged, and are now with regular titles. Seems awefully common...

But again, seems like you were tricked here...as the car is worth less cash... I suspect that in a private party sale a seller could plead ignorance to a prior salvage...but a dealer? They always run a carfax...

 

Luxury Motors?

 

Watch out for Canepa. They supercharged a Suburban SUV a few years ago for me. After about 1,500 miles the supercharger froze up, and stranded my family and I in the middle of ski trip to add insult to injury. But Bruce would not take care of it, I had to pay to have another supercharger installed. The consolation, if any, is that he told me the new one was "better". Sorry you had this bad experience, but if misery loves company, I'm your guy.

 

Hate hearing stuff like this. Sorry this is happening NYC. I'm sure you have a water tight case but a royal PIA just the same.

 

They should refund the money and take the car back. If it goes to court they will likely have to refund the money and turn around and file suit against the dealer that sold to them and so forth until it gets back to the one that washed the title. I am sure the dealer has insurance for stuff like this if they really were burned but that should be their problem, not yours.

 

Bing, Bing, Bing! That's funny. I see their reputation is out there.

 

What probably has to happen (short of employing a CA consumer protection law, if they exist to regulate automotive sales transactions) is that he has to sell the car with full disclosure, create the monetary loss of value, and then sue Canepa for said loss.