SD 2 tester Inquiry

hi peter , i own a sd/2 that works on maserati as well . i bought from italy . HARD lesson learned not purchasing it there [there are thiefs around ] . i speak from only my experience . ok . i know of one sold two years ago that went for less then 20k. that was the TOOL ONLY . the seller was motivated . you need to know what updates [dates ] are on the software . how to use books= none avail . you need to talk to guys that have used it .the guys above are correct about the older and newer units. sd/1 can do some tasks with one touch .sd/3 i'll pass on commenting on here . you need a computer to work with some cars . you may also need a hardlock key to read some software like wsm,parts,labor times etc. i agree with many things said above . i work for the company now[taking the 5th ] so i do not use my machine much anymore . if i can help please find my email .

 

I bought mine straight from the factory around 2001 and it was 15k Euro back then which at the time was around $21k US.

 

st05 is a waste of money, and a 1/2 arse tool at best, a cheap joke

i have never ever seen an sd2 sell for $10k usd ... never ... ever

sd3 does not work as well on sd2 cars as the orig sd2 does

+1 on what everybody here who uses them has already said

 

F for Fake ?

Ebay Artikelnummer: 280405942284

 

Unfortunately, Ferrari's monopoly on diagnostic equipment for so many years has made it difficult for everyone. I've just got the latest software update for my SD3 and i've been told that another may not be available, at least for some considerable amount of time. Ferrari have ceased selling new SD3's and Digitek are about as much use as a chocolate coffee pot. I paid top money for my SD3, and although my supplier has been very helpful, those upwards of the chain have not. Personaly, i have an ST05 which i keep on our call out truck. It's o.k but as others have said, it's very limited and so far i've been unable to succesfully update it's software. Certainly wouldn't want it as my only piece of Diagnostic equipment. I've been hunting around for an SD1 to become available for sale for literaly years. If i could find one i'd snap it up in an instant. I miss those simple days when your diagnostic all ran on DOS! The main problems i've encountered using SD3 as an SD2 have all been related to the porting software, it's difficult and time consuming to get it to work in PC mode, which you need when diagnosing anything before 360. If you can find an SD2 for a good price that would be your best all rounder. Be aware that it won't work with anything newer than 360.

 

I just built my own SD tester. I have a maserati3200 pre-obd and needed a diagnostics tool.
You cannot use standard OBD readers on my car so
i bought a scrap ECU for testing, and after 6 months! i was able to read error codes,
read actual values (temperatures, pressure etc). Now i can read ABS and Airbag controllers as well.

The maserati specific error codes could be determined by disconnecting the sensors on my car, then read the codes.
This way i could find the special O2, thermocouple, knock sensors.

The next challenge is the suspension ECU, actually the same as in a ferrari 355.
So far i am able to contact that ECU, but then its silent. My approach is to snif an actual SD tester to record all commands send to the suspension ECU and then put it into my software.

Currently, the system is running under DOS (oh yes, i know...)
demo here:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/xdyxl2

only an old 386 notebook and tester interface is required.

Now i am able to diagnostic the car myself!

 

That sounds like a really good effort. Let me know when you figure how to measure wear and set up an F1 clutch. That would really help me.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I have a NEW old stock SD2 avail, but I have sent e mails out to people looking for one, so I do not know how long I will have this one avail $ 17,995.00 USD

I am kind of surprised to see so many guys cutting down the ST05 unit. My customers have been very happy with the units overall, we have had to do a few updates, but no big deal. I would be interested to hear some more of the issues that some of you guys have with the STO5.

It now does allot. SD3's are no longer avail unless you can find a used one, or someone who has some inventory. Digitek was sold in December, they are no longer making any SD units.

The only option for a diagnostic tool that is new with a platform that is growing is the ST05 at this time, the 599 software is out & also the 612 & the Lambo part of the machine is now working pretty well.

I have an business associate that is currently testing out another machine that is trying to come on the market, but it only works on 360 & up, it should be priced in the 12,000 dollar range but that does not help if a 456 comes in the door.

I have allot of e mails from SD3 customers who now own SD3 door stops, the software has timed out & the machines are not working.

I am trying to get a hold of some of the ex Digitek guys who used to work over there to see if we can get these machines up & running again & hopefully we will be able to offer a service for shops who have these units, but so far it has been difficult.

Where have you guys been buying these ST05's that are having all these issues? I would like to know so I can forward these issues to the factory. I have had very good service from my rep in Italy & they care about their machines, the only time I had a issue with the was in AUG when they were on vacation, it took some time to get updates & a few Lambo cables for clients.

If any of you guys have an ST05 unit & are having issues, PM or e mail me & I will try to help.

Here is a link to the cable out put sheet, it kind of gives you an idea on what it does. By the way, I sell kit fully loaded with all Ferrari, Maserati & Lamborghini software that is avail for $18,995.00 USD at this time, no software licenses, to internal clock time outs, updates are free & I even have a leasing program avail for guys in the USA who need financing & you actually own the machine after making payments. Check out the link below, any questions you can e mail me at [email protected]


http://www.nicksforzaferrari.com/cables%20st05%20090609.pdf

 

Good day all,

I have been watching this and other diagnostic tool (SDx) threads for some time and was curious if anyone can direct me as to where I can obtain some low level technical information on what these devices actually do. I recognize what they do at the user level, but I am talking at the lower levels. I ask, as being an Electrical Engineer I am interested as to why other alternative tools are not being made? Economically and technically, given the retail cost on these devices, I find it hard to believe that one could not recover the R&D costs over a reasonable number of units.

Further, on a side note, I also find it absurd and somewhat disgusting that the manufacturer would place a time-out feature in these device given how much the purchaser paid for the units... That alone would almost drive to me remove this "feature".

Cheers,

Sam

 

I too have been reading these threads and I thought the same things. Then I did the math and made some estimates. It is difficult to amortize the engineering costs because the number of units is very low.

As a DIY I would be happy if I could do the basic functions like set PIS, properly bleed the F1 and ABS systems, etc. There is a 'design an ECU' thread & project. Maybe we should start a 'Design an SD' thread and start with the basic functions for DIY. The cost for that should be much lower and demand may be sufficient to keep it going.

 

I agree with you and the EE who posted above. I think there is money to be made by a out of work engineer looking to earn a living. The issue is proprietary intellectual property yielding a charge what the market will bear senario.

Engines are easy today and no ferrari engine will scare me because I know that if the electronics dies or the ECU because unusable you could always work your a$$ off and install a motec with full capability to monitor and adjust and diagnose for some number between 5-$10k while being illegal for kali smog if they can figure it out.

The E-diff, and F1 shifter and even the A/C controler etc. are a real ball buster. If someone could figure out things posted above like PIS and the F1 the whole world could open up. The F1 is still a huge source of cars being towed home. That never never happens in a 3 pedal car. Think about who will support the 360 F1 when these cars are as old as a 308? We need to work on these kinds of projects so that by the time the 360F1 is as old as a 308 we will a know how to dink with the dual points and the timing of 2 four cylinder engines on a common crankshaft.

 

Good day John and FBB,

Perhaps my knowledge of the low-level details is at fault here, but I still confident that one could develop an alternative for a reasonable price. Feature-wise initially it could initially be what you suggested, but I would ensure that the hardware is suitably designed to have a lot of HP and memory so as to accommodate all all of the features presented above.

Engineering costs-wise... Indeed, if one had the overhead of a large company then the burn rate of $$$ is quite high. However, smaller firms have significantly less overhead and so the Engg costs are a lot smaller. I know in our case (small EE firm) we routinely kick the butt of big firms because we can spin a product in 1/4 the time and for magnitudes less... which is the only way a small firm can compete with the big boys (David and Goliath scenario).

As for the ECU project, indeed, I am aware of this. I am on the periphery of this project and contributing (very little at the moment) when I can. Hopefully my time will free a bit so that I can satisfy my curiosity as the issues (pitfalls, limitations, etc) surrounding a alternative SDx type of tester. However, I see no reason why one could not have a suitable product for significantly less to the $$$ I have seen posted here.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Sam-PM me with an e-mail and I will send you an SD3 manual and whatever else I can find. Too big to post here at 4.5 Mb, but easily e-mailed.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Durametric is a small company that makes a great aftermarket scan tool for Porsche. www.durametric.com They are in the biz and if they get enough inquiries maybe they will look into it? If they can provide a very comprehensive scan tool that only works on Porsche for under $1000 I don't see why they could not come up with one for a Ferrari for less than $5000. The problem with Ferrari is that the numbers are so much smaller to spread the development costs over.

I have an old break out box style scan tool made by Jam Engineering that is for Motronics. It was made back before there were CEL's. It is an analog type machine that tests each circuit one by one. Far faster and more accurate than using a DVOM and having to look up values. It uses software keys and different harness for the different versions of Motronic. It does look at the live data for the O2 sensor for pass or fail. I have used it on BMW's and Porsche's but have not had the oppurtunity to try it on a 348 or 355 2.7 yet.

 

I do not know if a breakout box is made for later motronics 5.2 and above. I have seen them for 2.7. And while the 2.7 obd1 is pretty crappy the breakout box can help diagnose very smartly. Of course we would have no values and the best we could do is to find voltages/ohms etc. of working parts and compare them when something dies. It is a big cumbersome but hey it is better that what we have now which is replace parts and pray. I'm not sure how you would fiddle with systems with a BOB I'm thinking it would be read only? Is there such a thing as a motronic 5.2 BOB for example?

 

I know of a guy who back dated the SD3 and used an old PIN code by writing directly with an EPROM writer to the SD3's ROM chip. Not the most elegant solution but it works.

 

The Durametric works fairly well but comes up short on several things, an Autologic does better for much higher $$ but neither are total replacement for PIWIS or PST2. Ihave mentioned several times to Duram about the Fcar market, but I feel it would at best be the equal of STo5, albeit cheaper. Most owners would want to access Airbag, ABS etc in addition to the OBD data.

 

Hi John,
I just got an answer from Duram Plummer, owner of Durametric, and he IS still considering the Ferrari market (they have worked already on the 360 in the past buying most of the electronics). They consider that it it would not be a monumental project but more expensive than for Porsche. But they will need good technical people to help with beta testing and to tell the Ferrari world once it is ready. He things the product would be in the range of $1200-$1500. So, clearly, if we want to see one day such product on the market, even if it doesn't do in the first time 100% the same as an SD3 but getting closer like integrating F1 clutch ajustment etc. I wrote him that I'm ready to beta test his product on my F430 (I'm a software engineer). What do you think?

 

Hi Brian,

I agree but PIWIS seems to be only available on long term lease from Porsche for $12,000 per year...compared to 700$ of a Durametric Pro. Same for the Ferrari World, I'm not expecting that a software would do 100% exactly the same as the original SD3, it's just not possible coz Ferrari and Porsche have their well guarded technical secrets. But as a non-professional, I believe that if Ferrari Owners and smaller garages would be able to buy such software, that would already be very helpfull don't you think so? Today, with Ferrari, we have no alternative avail on the market...That's why I want to motivate guys like Duram to move forward and put something on the market for the F430 and F360 (to start with).
Stef

 

Add the 355 as well and it would make me happy(and a lot of other 355 owners). I dont se that it would make it that much more complicated. We in the 355 comunity with F1 gearbox have the same problems with the clutch PIS values, bleeding procedures etc...

 

I'd like to be able to do on Ferraris what we vette owners can do with an HPTuners unit. We can reflash the eprom to change A/F ratios, turn off seat belt lights, airbag lights, second o2 sensors it is amazing what can be done for a few hundred dollar device.

 

It is good to hear that Duram is open to a Ferrari scan tool. In small aftermarket repair shops it is impossible have 100% dealer level scan tools unless you are a trust fund kid. I have always worked on several car lines so $15K+ per line is just ridiculus. One or two scan tools that cover several car lines is the only affordable way. Independant shops don't always need all the dealer level bells and whistles any way. Most of the software issues are taken care of when the cars are new and under warranty. On the rare occasion that I find a car that needs a software update I just take it to the dealer.

Being able to handle 95% of most issues with scan tools that cost one tenth to one third the cost is the most cost effective. The general motoring public is not willing to pay the labor rates that would be needed to have top of the line everything. Probably why the new cars dealers charge such outrageous prices (fluff)for their work.

Many think that having a scan tool is the end all of late model car diagnosis. Far from the the truth. It is just a tool that gives you more information. Knowing how to decifer the information is the most important. Knowing the logic chains and what the numbers mean is akin to knowing how to write software code or another language. Just because a code is given for a specific item doesn't always mean that is the actual fault.

The more scan tools the better. More competition will bring out improved ones over time for less money.

 

as evidenced by several remarks on this thread as to how SD1, or SD2 may work better for older models. With these being a) unavailable and b) unsupported, how could a manufacturer justify not allowing an independent to develop a suitable scan tool? The ST5 does an OK job but is still overpriced for what it does.

 

If someone produces one that can do the clutch on the 575M, I am in in the $2000 range.

Taz
Terry Phillips