IS this the end of ********** at the VCR ?

That's the only reason I go there for. I live 45 mile away from VCR I don't need to shop there as we have shopping center where I live. This is the same reason I go to cars and coffee in Irvine, strictly for Cars and Coffee.

 

FWIW...up in Lake Arrowhead, during the summer weekends they built a stage and bring bands to play. The management pays for these bands because it evidently brings-in enough people that the shops see enough extra business that the management can in turn charge more rent to the point where it covers the cost of the band and lands them some profit.

If all the shops had an increase in business....not only would this thread not exist, but the landlord would gleefully be charging higher rent and explaining "Every weekend we have over 600 people come to our parking lot....you can market to these people"....it would clearly be a plus to his mall.

So why is the managment doing this? Logic suggest some of the vendors aren't made better-off. It's probably the Vons complaining that customers can't readily find parking and they're driving away. Or maybe another vendor has customers coming in for appointments and clients are complaining that they had to park FAR away. One or several stores are complaining....and they evidently haven't figured-out a way to harnass the opportunity.

It's a moot point. The management has determined what's in their best interest...and having a huge market-sized store vacant in these economic times, yeah, nuff said. They're already spending time/money with their recent efforts, so things are set in motion. We can type n' talk all we want.

 

People are currently working on a new location.

 

Have your people call my people.........

 

Do it early in the morning and be done before most retail business opens ... why do you need to hangout until 11-12:00

G

 

Most of the people were gone from VCR by 9:30-10

 

Time for a VCR roach coach.....

 

VCR is not dead!

Next week should be quite busy. I already have word of a large end of the month showing. Even the OC crowd.

It should be eventful.

 

Has anyone heard if the a-holes representing the management company are planning to show up again this Sunday?

BTW do we know exactly which stores are the cause of these problems? I know Vons is, are there others for sure?

 

You rang??????????????

 

As sad as it is, it appears that the meet has worn out its welcome. The exact same thing happened at Crystal Cove. The show grew too big and rather than welcoming all of those attendees with open arms, management saw them as a problem. For a while they tried to appease everyone. They blocked off certain sections of the lot for those businesses that were complaining about a lack of parking, and even controlled the hours of the show, but the bottom line was that the landlord didn't want to keep dealing with the hassle and eventually shut it down. Similarly Vons could have embraced the car guys and run promotions to bring all of those potential customers inside, but they have decided that they would rather just respond the complaints of their regular customers who can't get into the lot or the store as easily on Sundays. For better or for worse, they have decided to side with those customers. The landlord might be making a huge mistake by kicking everyone out, but it is his choice in the end. It is a private lot and he can decide what rules to enact and enforce. I hate that the small businesses in that strip are going to suffer as a result, but my feeling is that the landlord needs to learn the hard way how many customers he is turning away. Let him see vacancies and stores demanding to renegotiate their leases. By all means keep visiting Dustin at VCR, but Von's would be off my list for sure. A replacement site is apparently being sought, and hopefully the show can transition over smoothly. When Crystal Cove shut down, we also had to find a new home for the meet. We were fortunate enough to find a private business that owned its own lot and was willing to allow us to meet there on Saturdays. No neighbors to complain about noise or other businesses complaining about stolen parking spots, the place has coffee, food and bathrooms, is freeway close, large enough to handle several hundred cars, has additional spectator parking, and it's right in the middle of everything. That should be the blueprint for any future meeting place for Supercar Sunday. Hopefully VCR can go mobile to serve the faithful.

 

Huevos Sashimi?

Maybe they just need to impose a parking time limit in the front rows near the Vons.

 

Actually what the LAPD said was that they were only there at the request of the shopping center management for the protection of the security guards. They also said that the situation is only a civil matter. They were not there to stop the car show.

Why don't you support Dusty and join the fight instead of trying to move the gathering?

 

Because I am sure it will eventually benefit him in some way. That is obvious from the constant push to "relocate" people. Under the explanation of the issue, people are there to drink VCR coffee and enjoy each others company.

 

Any time there is a congregation of people, others will complain. I went to a BMW meet in OC and the cops b1tched that the lot was for customers only even though there were less than 20 other cars in the lot. So the following week, I bought sodas and cookies for everyone in the group for a total of almost $250, and Subway actually ran out of small soda cups in the process. The cops still complained. So how much do you have to spend per person to not be harassed?

If there are businesses that benefit from this, and it gets moved, is it possible to sue the management for loss of income? Doubtful it is going to leave any time soon, but just spitballing here.

 

Just to be clear, I am coordinating a drive with several others on the 25th. We planned to come to VCR to get coffee first, hang out for a bit and then depart. Will we be turned away/ticketed/towed by PD?

 

I think enforcement will be even heavier the last Sunday of this month. A desist and decease order has been issued to the VCR even though they have nothing to do with the gathering.

 

A very severe penalty indeed! Very sad.

 

If we are towed and we are a customer of the center, I would think that would be grounds for a law suit. I'm looking forward to having my coffee there every Sunday morning as I do every morning.

The end of the month Sunday should be huge as well as exciting! I here there might even be media there.

 

The gross reality is they will tow a few cars to make a point, they will be covered by their temporary restraining order, and they will tie up a law suit forever and a day if you try to sue them.

Weather you guys realize it or not this is causing more stress and issues for the VCR folks than they need to deal with. Taking their customers away in an already weak economy will be the end of it for them.

Big Corporate 1 Small Guy ZERO.

 

That is not correct. Read the case HESSIANS MOTORCYCLE CLUB vs. J. C. FLANAGANS (among others).

The Federal Civil Rights Act does not allow a store or location open to the public to discriminate based on race, color, religion or national origin. The California Unruh Civil Rights Act prevents discrimination based on clothes or sexual preference.

However, outside of that, a property/store owner that is open to the public can deny any individuals access if they have a reason for it.

 

The owner of this center owns 400 centers so they have pretty deep pockets. Not much of a chance for the small guy.

On a brighter note, there are many cool things in the works pertaining to the VCR as well as new locations. Hopefully this will lead to a better environment for all.

 

Sure, but I don't think that's the interesting question here. Looking at it from the point of view of visitors is one way to look at it, and, yes, short of a civil rights violation, property owners are largely able to keep anyone off they want.

However, the property owner's rights vis a vie the tenants may be very different. I don't know what the various leases say, but it would be interesting to know what kind of access and parking for customers is or isn't promised. A certain amount of access would be implied, I think. Of course, that doesn't mean that one tenant's rights trump another's... in any case, I think the rights of the tenants vs the landlord are more complex.

As a practical matter, the landlord can make this annoying and painful enough to kill the show even if it is ultimately unsuccessful in court. It would be amusing to see someone challenge the TRO - I suspect that the only way they got it was that it was uncontested (brought against "John Does"). If they are smart, they will never actually tow anyone.

FWIW, I've actually shopped at that VONS after going to the show (wife wanted me to pick up a few things on the way home). I've also bought things at the drugstore, and a small sandwich stone whose name I can't remember, drinks at VCR, and more breakfast at McD's than I'd like to remember. But I don't think it's really relevant if everyone at the show shops, or even if many people at the show shop there. The practical question is this:

- Do the stores that are open do more business on Sunday mornings than they would otherwise do on that day, at that time?

- If the answer is yes, even if the effect is small, the show has a net benefit to the tenants.

- if the answer is no, then the show has a net detrimental effect to the tenants.

I don't have any idea what the answer to that question is (although I suspect the answer for at least some of the shops - McDs and VCR, for instance - is clearly yes), but I suspect that VONS doesn't know the answer, either. They may ultimately discover that they are losing out once the crowds go away.

I agree with the folks that noted that VONS does not seem to recognze an opportunity when it bites them in the ass. Hundreds of people show up the last Sunday of the month - if they could attract even a handful of them into the market, I think they would be ahead. But that's probably a moot point.