IS this the end of ********** at the VCR ?

Here is the problem with that logic. If Vons notices a dip in sales, they can't beg to get the crowd back. When the ship has sailed, you can't get it back.

Crystal Cove in 2004-05 was a lot of fun, then it became a "park and pose" show. Starbucks has lightened up their Saturday morning staff, but they are by no means out of business with our departure.

Personally I have patronized Maria's, VCR, Subway, Chicks, CVS, McD's, Taco Bell, the BofA has gotten plenty of service fees from me, Radio Shack, the little cafe for breakfast, and other local shops as well, but if the crowd that is attracted there does not shop, only gawk, well then it is logical to enforce a parking time limit. Run people off though? That is uncool, but their right.

 

Yes, of course. Not a problem with the logic; sorry, I guess I should have added to the point about VONS discovering they lost business the line "By then it will be too late." Once the gathering is gone - and it is probably gone - it won't return. My real point is that I suspect VONS really hasn't fully considered the question of whether they benefit or not.

That proves the point. Even if the positive effect is small, it is still a positive net effect. The fact that they have cut back suggests they lost some business. It is highly unlikely that any of these business will succeed or fail based on the business they either get or lose early Sunday mornings. Everything else being equal, however, if I own a business, I want more customers, even if my survival isn't hanging in the balance.

I guess that comes back to my point. Even if the only people shopping are you and me, if that is two more customers than those shops would otherwise get early on Sunday (and again, I don't know if it is - hard to really judge), then there is a benefit. They can choose to get rid of the benefit.. the question of "right" is really more tied up in the tenant-landlord question... but IMHO, if I owned a business, I'd always choose to get two more customers rather than two less customers.

I'd note that shopping malls with a little more vision can embrace car shows - there is a fun one every Saturday in Scottsdale that even gets mentioned on the shopping center's own website:

http://scottsdalepavilions.com/Events.aspx

Having been to it, it is a great deal more organized than the (whatever it is called) Sundays, but it certainly attracts lots of people to the mall.

 

What do you mean they will be covered by a TRO if they tow my car (for example)? I am a legitimate customer, so that makes no sense to me. I assume you are an attorney had have a legal precedent you can reference.

 

Steve you are quite aware of who I am.........The TRO is enforceable and if they so choose they can enforce it, right or wrong.

 

Then it should be a fun day. Still don't recognize your screen name. Who is this?

 

Don't worry Steve, if they try and tow you we'll use the coffee to blind them while we turn tail and run....

 

Von's is a large corporation. The manager is just an employee. The manager probably doesn't care about a little more or less business. What he does care about is complaining customers. That is why the Von's will complain and not care about the huge potential extra business.

 

You are correct. However, unless there is designated parking (Vons parking spaces are identified, for example) the lot is normally common to all tenants and it is basically up to the landlord to manage it. Here is an example of a lease contract in a strip mall:

http://contracts.onecle.com/california-culinary/natividad.lease.1996.07.15.shtml

See section 5, something like that is normally what the lease will contain. Of course, it could be different but without seeing it, my guess would be it would likely be fairly standard.

In my opinion, arguing that there are more customers at the location due to the cars showing up is mute because the lot owner and has already made up his mind.

If you ended up in court, you could probably argue a case along the lines of.. cars are "like clothes" and so it falls under the Unruh act but the problem is you aren't likely going to find many people sympathetic to exotic car owners trying to claim protected class status. You'd need pretty careful jury selection for something like that

The question of towing.. that is a little more tricky. They can tow, of course. Just like you can punch someone in the nose if you want. But whether it would be legal or not given the short notice would be interesting. And there are liabilities for damage if the cars are towed and damaged in any way. My guess would be they really don't want to go down the route of towing the cars unless they get really ticked off.

I asked my wife about this and she said if it was her lot and the cars kept coming, she'd gravel it

 

Would it help if someone can invite the Mayor to VCR?

 

Better yet, if would be interesting if Jay Leno showed up in one of his cars and they tow it away.

 

Lets have the show on the public street in front of the Vons manager's house...LOL....

 

See you all at VCR tomorrow.

 

Keep the updates coming. I'll be monitoring this thread throughout the day from afar.

 

Well? Did anyone go today?

 

My wife stopped by at 0800 to have a look. She said there were no exotics, just muscle cars. Police were there but nobody was being towed. She spoke with somebody that told her that the TRO had not been finalized. Not sure if this is correct.

 

I was there with the 430 at 9. So was Mark process with his Ferrari and Justin Friedman with his Porsche. There were several other people but not like a normal Sunday at all.

I sure wish people wouldn't be so scared to come out. I'm sure Dusty could use our support. Look at what he's done for use over the last few years.

 

I planned to make it out but over slept (got to bed at 6am..def had an interesting Saturday night). I'l be out next week though! We have to support our show!

 

Sorry to hear about this.

I never had the pleasure of making It to this show.

Maybe I will when this is all cleared up. Best of luck with this.
The legal system can be a little bit of a headache.

 

I really hope that everyone who has been a part of the car gathering at El Camino Plaza for as many years as it has taken place would stop being so frightened over the BS that been presented to us. Are you really going to let this stop you from enjoying your Sunday mornings, your time with friends, and great coffee?

I have been going to this event for so many years and I don't think we should just lay down and let it go away just because some guy shows up in a Security jacket, and is surrounded by a couple Police officers. You have to remember the Police are only there to protect Security from something happening to him. The Police are not there to tell you to leave. I have never listened to a Security guard/Rent A Cop before in my life and I am definitely not starting now. I have too many memories and great times at El Camino Plaza and I will continue to show my presence along with those who care to join me and my friends.

On top of all of this, Village Coffee Roaster is one of the few remaining Mom and Pop coffee shops that really cares about their customers. They offer a great cup of coffee and have a great staff. The lack of presence by the car community means that they aren't getting the business that they are used to and that they need. Doesn't loyalty and friendship mean anything to everyone that has been going to SCS for all these years. Don't let bullies stop you from doing the things you want. VCR is OUR coffee shop and Dusty is our friend. VCR looks to us for business and now everyone is abandoning it when Dusty and his employees woke up every morning, put a smile on their face, and brightened YOUR morning with a great cup of coffee.

So I really hope that everyone will start to see that this is OUR show, OUR lot, OUR friends, OUR coffee shop, and OUR Sunday. Please let's not let these bullies stop us from enjoying what is ours.

Please everyone continue to show up every Sunday, buy your cup of coffee, and stand up for what you want.

 

Copy and paste this in an email and send it to the Daily News every day until they publish it!

Great post!

 

I really hope that people think this through. There are several points to address here.

#1 is that this starts and ends with the property management. Nothing they have tried has worked well enough to satisfy the people complaining. So if I were in charge of the property and under pressure to remove the SCS/VCR, what would I do? Lawsuits? Restaining Orders? Trespassing Arrests? Demand Police enforcement (tickets for tinted windows, modified exhaust, no front license plate, etc)? If that doesn't work, maybe cancel the lease for VCR (or at least not renew it)?
It would be better for everyone if instead of turning this into a war, we could open up dialog and try to find an agreement that works for everyone.

#2 The Police aren't there just for the security officers or the process server. Ask them and they will tell you that they are there to "keep the peace" for everyone and because the management company asked for Police help to remove the car show event. Can they do that? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on if the management company wants to open up the liability of making private person arrests.

#3 I have enjoyed this event (in one form or another) for almost 20 years and followed it as it has been sucessfully kicked out of 4 different locations. I want it to continue, but as the bumper stickers say "war is not the answer". It's not the foulmouthed security officers, the process server with his paperwork, or the police officer that is following orders to go write tickets, that is the problem. The problem is that some businesses complain to the property management and management has to take action. If the rest of the businesses get together in support of the event, there is power in numbers and perhaps we can find a solution that will work for us all.

The choice is ours to make. Take the position of "they can't tell us what to do" and get into a battle with property management which will lead to lawsuits, restraining orders, and traffic tickets (lose-lose situation), or we can see if there isn't a way to save the lawsuits, save the customers, and save the SCS/VCR.

 

Do you think?? A license plate identifies a car, and the registered owner, but not the person who may be driving it at any given moment.

 

Pierce College and Valley College have large parking lots that are generally empty on the weekend...