Nightlife 0 compression found and cause. | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Nightlife 0 compression found and cause.

Discussion in '348/355' started by Night life, Oct 29, 2009.

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  1. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,260
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    #76 ghardt, Oct 31, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2009
    I've had the cats off my car MANY times (for track use only of course) and was never offended by a stink or smell. When you first start it up, yes it runs rich. But after it warms up it's hard to notice. Just my experience.
     
  2. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,260
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    I too am following this thread. Thanks to all for the great info.
     
  3. Euromog

    Euromog Karting

    Apr 5, 2009
    102
    Oakhurst, CA
    Full Name:
    John Wessels
    Fuel trim is the best indicator to prevent cat failures. It is adjusted indepently for each bank. However when injector flow rates become uneven what the O2 sensor sees is an average for that one bank. Cat failures are caused by too much fuel or unburned fuel. They are stupid and will burn as much as you put into them to the point of melt down. So if you have one to three injectors flowing more fuel than they are supposed to and the remaining injectors are correct you get the following. The O2 sensor sees too much fuel coming out of the bank. So the ECU shortens the opening time to lean out that bank. The leaky injectors start to run closer to the correct fuel rate but the correct ones are now running too lean! Now preignition starts to happen on those cylinders and they overheat. End result is a burned piston and a damaged cat. A bad spark plug, plug wire and low compression can also cause a similar scenario.

    Ferrari's have to travel a good amount on the fuel trim correction before they will turn on the CEL for excessive fuel trim correction. Problem is so many problems can and do happen before they get to that point. That is why cat temp warning lights really need to be working at all times! When doing a service I always like to look at the fuel trim so I know that a mechanical problem is not being covered up. A few clues for injector problems are difficult and rough idle on a hot engine that has only been sitting for 20 to 30 minutes. Residual fuel pressure causes leaky injectors to drip into the engine while it is not running. After several minutes the engine finally clears out and seems normal.

    Injector rebuilding or replacement is now a maintenance item :)
     
  4. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie

    Jun 18, 2008
    2,793
    Henderson, NV
    Full Name:
    Roberto Bellezza
    After reading your thread, I went to the car and checked my "Slow Down" lights. They were both ON for about 1 second upon turning the ignition key. Is this the way to check them ?
     
  5. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie

    Jun 18, 2008
    2,793
    Henderson, NV
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    Roberto Bellezza
    Holy cow! Was your engine down to the floor like that ? How did you take it down and how did you put it back ? I envy you guys, this is just amazing.
     
  6. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Jeff, as always, a great "catch". It's funny that you mention this as I was planning to pull my injectors at my 30K due in 1.5 years and sent them out to be flow tested and cleaned, and replaced any, if needed.

    On a similar note, are there any aftermarket replacements for the OEM Ferrari injectors. Are they Bosch? So long as they have the same characteristics, flow rate, etc.....I don't see why not.
     
  7. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    40,238
    Huntsville, AL., USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Oh no - sorry to hear about all the problems Roberto. :(

    I have no technical assistance to offer, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a good outcome for you. :eek:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  8. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
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    Dave Helms

    Funny you should ask.... Oh, what one can do when you have access to accurate data!
     
  9. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Take a look at the piston cooling nozzle...looks too discolored across the whole top of the piston at first glance.
     
  10. Kayearc

    Kayearc Rookie

    Oct 22, 2009
    36
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Chris
    can you confirm they are Bosch units?
     
  11. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,791
    Ontario, Canada
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Correct - if you see them lit up then they are connected. After turning the key they don't stay on for very long, exactly as you described.
     
  12. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Mark Johnson
    #87 MaterMech, Nov 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It's on a moving dolly that can't be seen. The whole thing rolls around like butter. I had to jack it up onto 6x12 blocks to get the oil pan off and service the front cover and timing chain bits. I can tell you that I'll never do the chain like this again! It's a b#%*! and I now have a lift and shop.

    I just found these injector pics on the net. Kinda of makes you wonder. A rich condition actually cools the burn temp via the universal gas law PV=nRT. I believe some planes have header temp readouts for each cylinder and individual cylinder mixture control. If one is running to hot you just adjust that cylinder a little bit richer and check things out when back on the ground. In the car a rich mixture will definitely melt down a cat but it wont burn up a cylinder like that. A lean condition (clogged injector or poor spray pattern) will burn up the cylinder and since there is less fuel and more oxygen the O2 sensor for that bank sees the extra O2 and via the ECU will adjust the whole bank rich as mentioned before. The other three cylinders pump enough fuel in to melt down the cat plus the possibility off liquid fuel from a poor spray pattern entering the header and cat. As the exhaust valves lose there seal when the faces burn the said cylinder will act like a vacuum sucking up the cat bits. The pieces would also be pushed up the header towards the dead cylinder via the other exhaust pulsations. It's also significant that the cylinder that died was being fed by the injector closest to the fuel pressure regulator for that bank. It's got two things working against it. It sees the lowest rail pressure because of it's proximity to the pressure regulator and the other three injectors feeding upstream of it. A weak fuel pump or a leaking regulator compound the problem if they are lazy. That could be ruled out via fuel pump volume test, rail pressure, and leakdown test during engine off. Lastly the injector for that cylinder is at a low spot at the end of the fuel rail, with respect to the height of the regulator, so any debris in the fuel system will accumulate in that area. Boy oh boy this is painful Roberto, I wish I could help.
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  13. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
    476
    Los Gatos CA
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    Mark Johnson
    Do tell, I have two sets that need it and don't want to send them to just anybody I find on the net.
     
  14. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,260
    Texas
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    Jerry
    I love the beer bottle in you teardown photo. Looks like a good time!
     
  15. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,425
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    I used RC Engineering
     
  16. Night life

    Night life F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2007
    7,322
    The city that rhymes with fun in Canada
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    Roberto
    The car was running very well prior to this, I could not smell a lean or rich mixture, the engine warning lights never came on this run but have come on in the past at other times always on the highway and only for 1 min or less but always went out.

    My sensors were replaced prior to my purchase of the car.

    Prior to my purchase of the car the prior owner did the complete major less than 2 yrs ago.

    You ain't kidding brother :(

    Thanks Bro :)

    Interesting stuff thanks for posting, and ya this is painful I wish you could help as well lol.
     
  17. Night life

    Night life F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2007
    7,322
    The city that rhymes with fun in Canada
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    Roberto
    #92 Night life, Nov 2, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And now for some very painful pics.

    The piece I have on a stand is part of my piston I will be making a display for it reading "expensive things do come in small packages" or "My $10,000 mistake"

    One thing is for sure I never do anything half a$$ed :D................amazing I still have a sense of humor ;)
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  18. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
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    Jeff B.
    How is it possible that that piston didn't sieze in the bore? The engine was still RUNNING with that much damage? Amazing.

    Where is the car headed now?
     
  19. saw1998

    saw1998 F1 Veteran

    Jun 8, 2008
    8,237
    San Antonio, Texas
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    Scott
    +1. I'm getting nauseous just looking at some of those pictures. Roberto, I really feel for you.
     
  20. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
    34,791
    Ontario, Canada
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    Mike
    +2
     
  21. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2004
    5,953
    Burbank, CA
    Full Name:
    Hank Garfield
    Move over !! I think I'm going to hurl !!

    Sorry Roberto,

    Hank
     
  22. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,260
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Roberto,

    That photo of the tow truck driver through the cheese grater is art! Sorry you have it. That's some expensive art.
     
  23. ghardt

    ghardt Formula 3

    Apr 18, 2004
    1,260
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Roberto,

    The photo of you holding the head gasket over the head looks like there is a hole next to one of the spark plugs. Is that correct?
     
  24. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,323
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    I used to but was not very happy with their service.
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,323
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Fuel Injection Corp in Livermore Ca.

    Tell them Brian Crall Co. referred you.
     

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