Ferrari says to use GL5, not GL4. MTL is a GL4.
Because of that warning fromRedline, the correct gear oil to use per Redline and Ferrari standards is 75w90NS. That being said, I've had great personal results with Redline's Lightweight and Superlightweight shockproof gear oils that meet Ferrari's GL5 recommendation standard. No clogging noted after 4.5 years of heavy street, strip, and skidpad use. The 348's gear oil filter and pump are hardly prone to clogging!
this is the most important part of this discussion. a lot of people feel the same way about using these shockproof oils even when it says what it says.
This was from the OMG!!!! post. I don't know had to BOLD, but please note the 5th sentence which states: "[a]lso, I noticed that the gallon jug of gear oil had clumps of goo on the bottom ... not sure if I was suppose to shake it up first or what". This shows me that, when at rest for prolonged periods of time and under lower temperatures, the Shockproof gear oil's polymers and additives tend to precipitate and congeal. Many of us do not regularly use our cars, so perhaps this could become an issue. Yes, it would, most certainly, re-suspend once the vehicle was used, but I believe that many of the polymers, friction modifiers and lubricants might be "trapped" in the precipitate and cause unacceptable wear until said precipitate is fully re-suspended. I might be paranoid but I tend to listen to manufacturers, who generally spend a substantial amount of time and money examining their products under a variety of conditions. I think Redline's reputation speaks for itself. If Redline recommends not using Shockproof in vehicles with gear oil coolers, pumps, etc., then that's enough to keep me from using it. I noticed that when I went onto the Redline Internet site and that's why I used the MTL when I last changed my gear oil. The fact that rkdsk noticed the precipitate in the bottom of the Shockproof jug only makes me more sure of my original choice. I'm changing my fluids again soon and I still plan to use MTL. Just my two-cents, and I'm certainly no expert. But I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night. Has anyone used MTL and then changed to one of the Shockproof series? If so, was a difference noticed? EDIT: I forgot Engine Oil: Redline 5W40 Gear Oil: Redline MTL PS Fluid: Redline Coolant: Mercedes Pre-Mix with Redline Water-Wetter & Griot's Garage Coolant Additive Clutch/Brake Fluid: ATE Super Blue WS Washer Fluid: Rain-X EDIT 2: Plus, if Dave Helms and/or Brain Crall state something, I tend to take it as gospel. Like Redline, I think their reputations speak for themselves.
Ferrari says use GL5 gear oil. Redline warns of their Shockproof line clogging gear oil pumps/filters. MTL is a GL4, not GL5 gear oil. Ferrari 348's are not known for clogged gear oil pumps/filters. Now,if you want to go by the book, then don't use MTL or Shockproof. Instead, use Redline's 75w90NS. That's a GL5 gear oil that doesn't have a clogging warning. If you still need better shifts into 2nd gear when cold, then go to their Lightweight Shockproof (with a Ferrari-approved gear oil GL5 rating), not to their MTL. MTL shifts terribly. Awful when cold. Shockproof shifts great! I've used them both/all.
Scott- Highlight, CTRL B. I did not know how to do it either, but that seemed like the natural way and it worked. Will have to try a few more CTRLs and see how they work. Sign me in as your wingman on trusting Brian and Dave. Just about everything I know about Ferrari guts, I learned from them. Taz Terry Phillips
ND: Where does it say that Redline Lightweight Shockproof meets GL-5 criteria? Heavyweight Shockproof, yes, but I don't see the Lightweight in that category. Am I missing something. BTW, I've had great cold 2nd gear shifting with the MTL. I changed from using Redline's 75w90NS to the MTL.
I have been using the Heavy weight (Bubble Gum) Shock Proof in the non sincro racing Crash Boxes such as Hewland and Colotti and it is nothing short of spectacularfor those. I read one time someone tried that Heavy Weight in a stock Ferrari box...I would expect that lube to shear off the pump shafts as we have to near spoon it in unless we put a torch to it. Take into account how far the oils have come since the data/spec's were printed when discussing what to use. The box and its design has remained static, the oils have not.
Wow, some of you guys are really stubborn. Nothing goes in my Ferrari when the manufacturer specifically recommends against it. How many have your exhaust bypass valves permanently open? Just curious since Brian thinks it causes valve damage because it is so close to the head. Taz Terry Phillips
Guys ... to each thier own. I am the guy experimenting with all the redline oils ... next week I'll be testing the redline light weight. I have looked for signs of metal, poor shifting, grinding, oil temperature etc... and have even pull my screen between each change. So far I have had the best shifts results with the superlight weight. I understand the "recommendations" and I know everyone here only does ferrari approved modifications ... but my own experimental results seem to indicate that the redline super lightweight has NO grinding/smoother shifting ... which would seem to be better for my gears than the stock oil that creates all kind of grinding and takes forever to warm up ... and there are many people out there that have been using these oild for years! Can anyone give me just one example of a redline failure ... again ... to each thier own
You brought up a valid point, that Redline warns against clogging the gear oil filter/pump with their Shockproof gear oil series. That's worth mentioning. It's also worth mentioning that *years* of heavy street, strip, and skidpad use of the shockproof gear oils in my own 348 have seen no clogging, as well as that shifts are greatly improved both hot and cold with the Lightweight Shockproof and Superlightweight Shockproof. For those who want both the Ferrari-approved GL5 as well as the Redline recommended oil, the correct Redline product would be 75w90NS. For those who want the Ferrari-approved GL5, but better shifts than the 75w90NS, then the Superlightweight or Lightweight Shockproof gear oil is the way to go from personal experience...with the caveat that Redline itself warns of potential gear oil pump/filter clogging.
Just my opinion but.. Why would Ferrari accept a GL4 Shell product in their gearboxes when Shell GL5 is 'apparently' barely up to the job as it is. Its only logical then that Ferrari would recommend GL5, (because Ferrari will assume one is using their recommended brand). Redline oils are amazing, and I suspect even Redlines GL4 product offers more protection than any Ferrari partner product (ie:shell/agip). As RD states.. no hypoid=no need for GL5, its that simple. And that statement is supported by RL. I notice no comments on the GL5 effects on long term syncro life?? I wonder if the great shifts are a short lived enjoyment until the syncros dissolve??
Who says such things?! Bizarre. Welcome to the Internet where anyone can say anything, and probably will.
Yes 'murray'.. the internet is wonderful isn't it? 'dissolve' is a harsh word.. dont take it literally... however.. Do the 348 and 355 have bronze syncros? If so, what about sulfur based additives vs yellow metals.. Perhaps Brian or Dave can help us out here?
It's not "bronze" that you need to worry about, but "leaded bronze"...a very old...non-industry-standard alloy, when you have Sulfuric compounds *and* water together: http://www.springerlink.com/content/t569657640710012/ Are you even familiar with the difference between modern brasses and bronzes (copper with tin and zinc)? Anyone who believes that Ferrari used leaded bronze for synchros, please raise your hand... Still waiting...
I am no metallurgist by any stretch... but I do know the difference between brass and bronze on a basic level. Leaded bronze is used as a bearing material isnt it? I am not trying to be a smart ass by any stretch, I am old school sports car, and it has been and still is a topic of conversation on many forums. Today I read that perhaps it is the newer formulations of oils that are compatible with a wide range of brass/bronze alloys and not so much the alloy itself that must resist the formulations. So I guess my question is answered (somewhat). I dont think anyone can honestly tell you here what the composition of Ferrari syncros are.. surely not leaded bronze .. that said, I would like to know.
Does the 99 355 gearbox have a cleanable filter. If so where and how to clean, new gaskets needed? Thanks
Leaded bronze is the key. Sulphuric compounds have no impact on bronze itself, but sulphuric acid and water will literally dissolve the lead out of leaded bronze. Bronzes and brasses today are made with copper plus either tin or zinc. People don't use lead in bronze for any serious applications any longer (there was leaded bronze in the transmission of early, but not late Model T Fords, for example). If you just have bronze parts in your tranny/differential, then sulphuric compunds and water (e.g. from condensation) really have no impact...but if you have leaded bronze, then the lead will be dissolved out of the leaded bronze.
You seem to have missed my point. It really is irrelevant if I know the difference.. the point is is that it is still a topic of discussion, when apparently it shouldn't be. If the issue hasn't existed since the Model T, (as it seems), why is it still widely discussed?? The fact that Redline even mention it tells me they feel that there is enough anxiety over the issue that they feel the need to state that their product is "safe" with brass (..perhaps implying that others products aren't?). WHY? ...two things strike me.. either Redline know the facts, or are are simply applying a clever marketing strategy in such a statement to attract customers to their product. Assuming Redline are applying expert opinion, based on their words, one could be led to believe that if syncos are indeed brass, that the "reactive sulphurs found in most GL5 oils" can "cause damage". That is why I asked what Ferrari syncros are made of... which no one seems to know... One thing we can be assured of at this point (according to Redline) is that all their GB oils are chemically compatible with Ferrari gearbox syncros. In light of all this though, I now wonder about others GL5 products? Perhaps this is all mute.. but it does beg the question..
