458 or SLS amg?

I think you are right. They just shouldn't have butchered one of the most iconic cars ever in their effort to make "one hell of a car".

How do you improve the Mona Lisa? Can you remake "Citizen Kane"? Should you update the ceiling the Sistine Chapel?

MB should have known better.

 

I'd take either. But probably the italia over the merc I'd need to spend some time with both cars though to truly decide

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263476

see post #7

 

The way Ferrari constantly keeps improving their game and models is amazing, from the humble 308 to the 458 Italia, every model has been a significant gain and advancement over the outgoing model, which is why i respect Ferrari more than i do Porsche which has been refining the same design over the last 30 yrs or so. Nothing wrong with the 911, but definately not a 458.

 

Boy, that's a silly looking car when the doors are open!

 

The SLS looks great from the front, but they really fouled up the roof line. From the rear or rear three quarters, and even from the side, it looks like a dog's breakfast.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Actually the 2010 E63 AMG has the same dual clutch transmission. As for improved quality the interior of the E63 I test drove was disappointing. Plastic and cheap leather, the bean counters at MB are more in control than ever. Also the dealer wants $20K over list for the SLS, base price circa $195K. Same dealer had 2 under 500miles untitled 2008 SL 12 cyl turbo, list over$190K. Would have taken $125K. They even put an interior "finish" on these cars and gloss it up for $500 extra.Please we are not buying Hyuandai's

 

SLS, no question.

The 458 will join the 430, 360 wit its winglets/inlets, as dated, and 50% value loss.

The Gullwing doors are a visceral experience to watch open. I saw one close up in NYC, SoHo at a stop light, during their publicity tour. Its very wide, hunkered down and deep inlet grill, with real exhaust outlets.

The original Gullwings actually had a little trouble getting off the ground in sales (like the original Cobra, Newman Rolex Daytona, Heuer Monaco, etc.); and the last registered sale was years after production end, with one famous dealer having it stuck in showroom till 70s.

They were known as Gullwing Ovens for always-on heat; the 300 SL Roadster was much more favored.

Its a cult icon, and at $199K a bargain.

 

an icon? really?

 

Keep dreaming.
SLS is NOT going to achieve cult status,if you still think so you are living in a LA-LA land.....

 

+1.

 

+2

 

I hate to be contrary about a car you obviously love, but the SLR was truly the most underwhelming exotic I have ever driven. It was superfast in a straight line but seriously overweight and it didn't engender any confidence heading into a corner.
A common AMG SL is really as good as an SLR in the real world.

It was a really BIG car and I was quite happy to sell it after a couple of months.

 

I personally was quite impressed by the SLR, it felt quick, handled well, looked great with tons of road presence and sounded nice.

I did drive a 722 though, not sure how different a standard one would feel?

I've owned various AMG cars including the SLK55, SL55, and E63 along with various M3 / M5's over the years + numerous sports cars which were driven daily. And I personally think the Mercs were the most enjoyable day to day cars.

I would of gone for the 722 if it wasn't for the dealer being stubborn with a small discount I wanted.

 

I don't mind a bit of oversteer--much better than understeer. The SLR has a big booty--much like my old 911, that liked to get sideways. But, I can control the oversteer much better than I can predict understeer. So, I didn't mind the SLR.

I will tell you, however, my 360 CS was much more balanced than the SLR I drove. (Man I miss that car.)

 

You may be right. The SLS isn't the most beautiful car made, but it does have drama, and the price point isn't bad. Remember the Countach was a dog in many ways: scissor doors made it an icon. I haven't seen an SLS yet but look forward to it.

As far as the 458, it is a prettier and faster car than the 360/F430, but in the long run probably not an important one. I tend to agree with you that the 360/F430 styling is already looking somewhat dated.

SLS values would depend on how many Merc makes. The Ford GT was basically a retro tribute car, and values have held up on that one. So, who knows...

 

The SLS is a gimmick. I pity those that are too myopic to realize it...

 

The Italia has so much technical integration and refinement.

I don't think Mercedes can match Ferrari's level of innovation and evolutionary development.

Plus Mercedes simply lacks commitment to this niche segment.

I get the feeling that Mercedes might at any time cease to produce this kind of ultra high end exotics.

(I'm not refering to the AMG tuning for E, S, SL, CL classes. MB will continue to do this.)

 

I think you guys are a bit harsh on the SLS. In general, I would agree with all statements made on any other AMG, except the CLK Black Series.. and in this car, I have a bit of faith in AMG restored which leads me to believe that the SLS is something more special. I wrote the Black Series off as more marketing hype, until I drove one, and raced against some in my Noble at the track. That car is no joke. Was spanking most people on the track. And it had only 500hp, and weighed 3900 lbs.. now its probably not as raw as the BS, but it could be close. The specs for the SLS are much better:

All styling subjective elements aside..
#1 its not a heavy pig. its 3580 lbs, which is quite light by today's GT standards, 300-500 lbs lighter than an SL, DB9, even within 100 lbs of 911 Turbo, and just barely lighter than a Vantage AMV8. For sure lighter than anything close to 600hp, with the exception of Z06.
#2 front-mid engine with rear transaxle, 52/48 weight dist.
#3 0-60 in 3.8. 570HP/480TQ.. Thats fast.. very fast for a GT car.
#4 Amazing interior.. classy, yet not too retro. ok so styling isn't completely aside

I think it will be a great car to drive, very daily drivable and a heck of a lot of fun.. now would I buy one over a 458? Probably not, but I aint at that level. But maybe a nice addition. I really dont think any 458 buyers are considering an SLS as a similar vehicle.. way different segment.
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458 scuderia version!

 

458 ITAlia

 

I agree about the Black Series, lovely car.

Also the CLK DTM was a great car to drive too, whilst we're on the subject of exciting Mercedes.

 

whats the final word on sls transmission? mb has both 'wet pack' and std torque converter automatics that i know of. is there also a dual clutch auto manual?

sls should get dual clutch for this price point but the black sl only had the 5 speed auto and that was $300k

 

+100

 

I checked out the EVO article about the new Gullwing. The car doesn't look that bad actually. My final opinion of the car would be cemented once I drove it.

http://www.evo.co.uk/features/features/241231/mercedesbenz_sls_amg.html?CMP=NLC-Newsletters&uid=dbfda63696aaa9b389e056adfe753957
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