This looks bad!! | FerrariChat

This looks bad!!

Discussion in '348/355' started by LouB747, Nov 29, 2009.

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  1. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2009
    2,123
    Huntington Beach, CA
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    Lou Boyer
    Just got back from a spirited drive. Noticed an unusual smell a few miles from home. All gauges showed normal. Car running great. Got home. Noticed coolant leak from middle of car from "grill" under the engine towards the front. Waited 10 mins, then started the car and turned the heater off....in case that had anything to do with it. Car started and runs normal. No check engine lights at all.........BUT.....liquid (possibly coolant) in the exhaust. A bit smokey. I'm no mechanic, but I'm guessing blown head gasket. I'm guessing that means pulling the engine......Again, I have no mechanical background.....the engine compartment itself looks clean. Can't find a "leak" anywhere.

    So is this where I stand?????:

    I must pull the engine to fix the gasket??
    What damage could have been done to the engine? (Only ran a few miles after it "went" and the temp never changed)

    The 30k was done in Aug 2006.......so if the engine comes out, I guess I'll just do the major service.

    ANY advice welcome..........along with what you would do(upgrades) at your next 30k service (in case it comes to that!!!)

    Been a long day..................Lou
     
  2. Schmick325

    Schmick325 Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2004
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    Bris east
    #2 Schmick325, Nov 29, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2009
    I am by no means an expert with Ferrari's, however a visible coolant leak on a normal car would most likely NOT be a Cylinder head gasket. Those leaks are usually internal and you would also have a problems like overheating, rough running or milky oil.

    Its most likely a hose or a clamp or hopefully something straight forward as that. Bizzare that its dripping under the car and also a bit smokey?!

    A badly blown head gasket will make the exhaust steam constantly, and the car will overheat reletively quickly.

    Check the oil, is it clean? If it look like a chocolate shake then you have problems

    A typical culprit is the water pump. Once the bearings wear they start to drip coolant. Would be hard to spot from under the car or looking in engine bay
     
  3. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Jeff B.
    Good advice above, don't panic yet.

    Try looking at the top of the engine, just in front of the oil filter, under the intake plenum. The hose that runs from the coolant expansion tank to the engine often becomes grossly swollen and quickly develops a leak that runs down the front of the engine. Worth checking. It CAN be replaced without removing the plenum, if you find a problem there.
     
  4. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2009
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    Lou Boyer

    Yeh, I see that hose. But it looks fine. In fact the whole engine compartment looks clean. Pic attached of where it's leaking. Not dripping anymore this morning. Coolant level is OK. With the car cold, I can't check the oil level to see what it looks like. I'm almost afraid to start it in case I do damage. When I started it last night, there was a "steam" coming from the exhaust....as well as "liquid" in the pipes. It ran fine though at idle. If the head gasket is blown, will the motor have to be pulled? Lou
     
  5. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

    Aug 8, 2002
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    Does the liquid coming out of the exhaust evaporate?

    Coolant doesn't evaporate very fast, you can also taste it, coolant has a sweetish taste.
     
  6. oldcoin

    oldcoin Formula Junior

    May 1, 2006
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    Reno NV
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    Tony Mitchell
    Lou, the engine will have to be pulled IF it is a head gasket. I am not saying at this point that I think it is a head gasket.
     
  7. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
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    Los Gatos CA
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    Mark Johnson
    No picture? When it's cold out I get steam from the exhaust every time on cold start-up. I don't think you have a head gasket problem unless it overheated. Anywhoo it's either that hose Jeff is talking about or something around the water-pump, most likely. It may have to go up on a lift to get a look at the area around the W/P (Alternator removed).
     
  8. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #8 LouB747, Nov 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #9 LouB747, Nov 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A few more pics. That hose on top looks fine to me. Can't find a sign of leakage in the engine compartment.......

    When it was "steaming" last night. If was after being driven, and about 10 mins after I shut it down. So it was definitely warm. Not the "cold morning" steam.
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  10. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    Pull the plugs, check for rust or see if one plug looks a lot different than the others.

    The pressure of combustion is greater than the coolant pressure so the exhaust generally is forced into the cooling system if you have a blown head gasket. Coolant only gets in the combustion chamber when the engine is shut off and residual coolant pressure forces it in then its blown out when the car is started, unless there is enough to hydraulic lock the engine.
     
  11. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
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    My money is still on a hose somewhere. That is a classic leakage area when hoses let go. If you are really concerned about hurting the engine if there is water in a cylinder then pull all of the plugs and crank it over and then go look for signs of it barfing H20 out of a plug hole. Once you locate and fix the main leak you can pressurize the system and watch the leakdown rate as an indication other leakage. It should take several minutes for pressure to bleed away, if at all. Is it just me or is the main body pan installed incorrectly over the belt guard. Get that louvered belt guard off and look up in there a bit. I assume there is no standing water in the block valley; that would tell you that the hose/fitting from the reservoir tank is ok.
     
  12. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    A good point just raised. On that same hose (the one from the expansion tank to the engine, under the plenum) we have seen cases here of serious corrosion on the fitting itself, to the point that Paul Hill has started providing new fittings through Ricambi. It's possible that the hose has already been replaced (that doesn't look like the "braided" hose that was originally used), but the fitting is leaking. Look carefully for coolant standing in the valley under the plenum.
     
  13. MaterMech

    MaterMech Formula Junior

    Feb 26, 2007
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    Another point, if you pull the plugs look for a plug that is whiter/cleaner than the others. Water in the combustion chamber will clean carbon.
     
  14. fxdwgs

    fxdwgs Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2006
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    Try tighten the clamps to the hoses around the water pump......one of them were loose on my car......only leaking when the engine is running due to the pressure otherwise not leaking........

    //B//
     
  15. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Fired it up, cranked easily and started right up. Only ran it a few minutes.
    Small amount of moisture in the exhaust typical with first start in the morning.
    Didn't notice anything leaking. Again, only ran 2mins. Have 2 young kids, and being
    the weekend, tough to investigate further. Want to get that panel off and look
    underneath. Didn't realize how low these cars sit until I tried looking underneath!!

    Report more later....appreciate all the help!!!!
     
  16. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    #16 LouB747, Nov 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just ran it at low RPM until the water temp reached 195 and the fan cycled. At first when I started it, some visible water coming out the exhaust. After a minute or so, that went away. Steady idle. Oil looks suspect to me. Seems a bit "thick" and darker. Pic attached. Oil not up to temp, so quantity a bit low....

    What do you think???

    If the head gasket is blown, and the engine needs to come out, I'm assuming doing the 30K service would be in order.

    With this condition, would it be a "normal" 30K service.....or would the gasket blowing cause additional concerns//$$.

    Thanks again, Lou
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  17. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 10, 2007
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    Oil doesn't really look abnormal to me.

    Some water out of the exhaust is a normal byproduct of complete combustion.

    If the headgasket was leaking coolant into the oil it would be milky. Also, if you let the car sit and drain the oil coolant would come out first (as oil floats on coolant).

    If the headgasket was leaking into the combustion chamber you would have distinct white smoke out of the exhaust that has a sweet smell.

    You could buy a "block tester" from the auto parts store (it tests for carbon monoxide in the cooling system) if you still think it's a head gasket.

    Is it possible that your cooling system was slightly overfilled and you reached enough temperature to purge some coolant? (I'm not sure where the overflow is located on that car).
     
  18. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie

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    Oil look fine to me, water in oil looks like chocolate milk froth.
     
  19. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie

    Jun 18, 2008
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    I also don't think is a blown gasket, more a hose ...
     
  20. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

    Apr 8, 2009
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    Thanks for looking everyone. I REALLY appreciate all the input. I just talked to the Ferrari guy that did the 30K on my Mondial. He doubts a blown gasket. Maybe a hose at the pump or the water pump itself. If I can manage to raise the car, I'll pull that panel and have a look underneath. He did say that if the water pumps bad, he'd have to pull the engine to replace it. Is that right?? OUCH!!

    Anyway, I'm hoping it's just a hose connection. I just thought it was strange after driving it hard, then noticing the leak about 10 mins later when it was shutdown... and starting the car back up, to see "steam" coming from the exhaust. Have never noticed that before.


    Thanks again, will try and pull the plugs tomorrow just to see what's in there......Lou
     
  21. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    You can replace the water pump by pulling the gas tank. Somewhat less time-consuming.
     
  22. 993man

    993man Formula Junior
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    This is my first ever post here, and I will add it's a great site. Been sniffing around for a long time.
    I own a 993TT and had the same issue. I know squat about Ferrari's, but my problem was the air conditioning condenser.
    Is that worth looking into, or within the air con system somewhere else?
    Good luck. It's scary when things like this happen.
     
  23. LouB747

    LouB747 Formula 3

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    Well I've started the car a few times. No smoke or fluid out the exhaust. Car is being flatbedded (free AAA) to have it checked. I can't get under the car to have a look myself. Really don't feel safe driving it.

    Question: I know I saw "steam" and some coolant in the exhaust after I restarted the car approximately 10 mins after shutting it down and seeing a leak. After that, I've ran it a few times at idle and it seems fine. Is there any way a small amount of coolant could have entered the intake?? Or is there any other way a small amount of coolant could have entered the engine other than a blown head gasket????

    Just preparing for the worst. Being towed on Monday morning.

    Thanks so much, Lou
     
  24. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    OK, same thing happened to me. Before you start changing water pumps or anything you need to check in one spot that is very hard to reach. It took me three weeks to find it and I was worried sick about it. It dripped when very cold out or after spirited runs. In the front of the engine where the big rubber hose goes into the top of the pump feel around the back of the hose where it meets the end of the neck. It is very hard to get your fingers in there. You could also use a small mirror on a stick to see in there. Pressure builds up in the hose and sprays onto the neck in the back, down around the water pump and then leaks down under the belt shrouds. Look and see if the hose looks bulged a little. It always looks like a bad pump. See my old post below:


    "I FOUND IT! I ran the car and waited four hours, checking every 1/2 hour. When the dripping started I went to work looking at everything starting at the top of the engine. I just caught sight in my exstendable mirror of what appeared to be leakage near the water pump inlet at the bottom, the curved pipe on top of the water pump. The hose coming from the firewall pipes hides the bottom of the pipe when it's pushed all the way back. I managed to get a finger jammed in there and sure enough that was it. Any pressure or heat will swell the gap so there is no leakage, even from start-up. It had gotten down to 48 in the garage when the leak started. This was very hard to see and it was only chance that I saw it. The hose will hide the leak from sight and the drip will travel down the water pump housing making it look like you have a very bad issue. It is very deceptive because the thermostat housing and hose are dry making you think the leak is lower. I can duplicate the leak and I made sure to dry up the leak first and then wait to see if it reoccurred in the same spot, it did. I have retightened the hose clamp to what I consider very tight. I will check back soon."

    --Mike
     
  25. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    #25 Saint Bastage, Dec 3, 2009
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