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Renault Sold!

Discussion in 'F1' started by 4rePhill, Dec 11, 2009.

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  1. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #1 4rePhill, Dec 11, 2009
  2. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #2 kraftwerk, Dec 11, 2009
    Good news although I had hoped it would be Dave Richards taking over.
     
  3. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #3 4rePhill, Dec 11, 2009
    +1 on that, I thought Dave Richards would have been the favourite (couldn't have been a money issue, I gave him plenty when he used to own My local BMW dealership!). :D

    Still, at least the teams still going to be racing and Kubica's future is a bit more certain.
     
  4. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    #4 Isobel, Dec 11, 2009
    Christmas comes early for Red Bull ;).
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #5 Bas, Dec 11, 2009
    As in they get the renault engines?

    If I where Renault I'd do just about anything in my power to get rid of those **** engines.
     
  6. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    #6 Tifoso1, Dec 11, 2009
    Where are the people that bashes Honda and Toyota when they decided to leave the sport ? They were all AWOL when BMW pulled out and left the mess to be cleaned up for Peter Sauber, let's see if they make their presence know here with the Renault make-over.
     
  7. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 VIZSLA, Dec 11, 2009
    The only surprise here will be who the buyer is.
     
  8. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #8 4rePhill, Dec 11, 2009
    To be fair, I think BMW made quite a bit of effort to help Peter Sauber get the team back. You don't here any aminosity from Sauber towards BMW, who in turn pulled out of the Qadbak deal in favour Sauber.
    It's easy to judge based on face value, but I suspect there was work done on both sides behind the scenes to get Sauber the deal he wound up with. BMW could have just dumped the team for the highest bidder or just shut it down completely.

    Honda did a similar thing for Brawn and Toyota finally realised that you don't win in F1 just by throwing money at it (I was surprised they didn't use Honda leaving as an excuse to leave a year earlier).

    Honda, BMW and Renault have all made some effort to keep the teams in F1 at the end of the day and without Toyota bailing out, Sauber might not be back.
     
  9. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #9 Remy Zero, Dec 11, 2009


    i agree...
     
  10. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #10 LightGuy, Dec 11, 2009
    Coupla fellows named Windsor and Anderson.
     
  11. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 VIZSLA, Dec 11, 2009
    Pulled out?
    As I recall Qadbak wasn't economically viable.
     
  12. curtisc63

    curtisc63 Formula 3
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    #12 curtisc63, Dec 11, 2009
    "It has also been agreed that the team will race as Renault in 2010."

    Maybe this has something to do with DR not getting the team. Renault want to maintain some involvement with the option to step back in if/when things turn around...

    Maybe DR wanted it all and would not play that way. With the ProDrive and Aston Martin ties I believe he would want to dissolve the Renault influence altogether.
     
  13. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #13 Remy Zero, Dec 11, 2009
    Qadback deal didn't happen...to begin with.
     
  14. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 VIZSLA, Dec 11, 2009
    It may be as simple as the grid position having been allotted to Renault and the FIA not allowing a change.
     
  15. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    #15 Tifoso1, Dec 11, 2009
    Interestingly enough, I see it from a different perspective. BMW-Sauber never did sign the new FIA agreement, which IMO, means the possibility of that they were planning on pull out of the sport to begin with. By not signing, they have already made a mess for whoever that will be taking over the team. The new owner was fortunate enought to not be forced to pay a king's ransome to one of the new entrants. Toyota could have sold their spot but they chose not to and thus leaving a spot open for Sauber to fill without having to further their existing financial situation.

    As for Honda, both BMW and Honda sold their team for financial compensation, not for some sort of altruistic reason. Ross Brawn did not get the team for free and nor did Peter Sauber. From a business stand point, with the uncertainty of Qadback money, it is better to take what is actually there from Peter Sauber than to be at the mercy of Qadback. Again, a business decision and not an altruistic move by BMW.

    Now, let's talk about Renault. As we all know, their future was cloudy in the past few months. Selling 75% of their team right now will most likely lead to them leaving the sport completely as a team. I had be interested to know if Kubica knew of this before signing with them. Again, from a business POV, I think the 25% ownership is most likely due to the new owner's request, to ease the transition and to attract sponsorship.

    Like you said, it is always easy to judge based on face value. I think it is safe to say that it is unlikely that any of us is a senior board member at Toyota, Honda, BMW, Brawn and Sauber. Considering the mess between FOTA-FIA this year, I am sure there are a lot of things happening behind the scene that we will never really know about. Judging from Toyota's racing history, it is safe to say that they don't make a move lightly. And from that history, it is also reasonable for anyone that follows motorsport, that they did make an effort to stay in F1. But considering current global economic climate coupled with the lack of success and the financial drain, they had to pull out of the sport just like the other two and now three, manufacture backed teams.

    As you know, the member here on the forum has been painting one team's departure as some sort of favor while demonizing another is what I find perculiar of, and leads me to wonder how much of this has to do with the fact that perhaps, it may have more to with Toyota and Honda not being an European team.
     
  16. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #16 4rePhill, Dec 11, 2009
    I'm not sure at which point in time the Qadbak deal became unstuck, but it appeared to be the preferred option for BMW, which they were pursuing quite vigorously while Peter Sauber was stating that buying the team back was not an option financially.

    Then all of a sudden the Qadbak deal was no more and Peter Sauber found the funding without any outside help.

    My point is that there seems to be a perception that BMW "dumped" the team and left Peter Sauber to "clear up the mess" which I believe is not the case.

    It has similar parallels to when BMW sold Rover in the UK. Everybody here felt that BMW dumped Rover and deserted the workers for the princely sum of £10. What they weren't aware of was that BMW had left a "soft" loan of £500 Million to keep the company running. The reason they weren't aware was because BMW didn't make a song and dance about it (I wish they had though as the night it was anounced BMW were leaving Rover, My BMW got vandalised along with several others in some ridiculous retaliation).

    I do wonder if the financing that Peter Sauber found has any links to Ferrari. He seems quite cagey about it when asked (not that I care that much, I'm just glad they're still in F1, especially with their refound links to Ferrari).
     
  17. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    #17 4rePhill, Dec 11, 2009
    In the case of Honda, Although brawn didn't get it for free, Honda did leave it with a healthy budget to ensure it's survival for the following season which they were not legally obliged to do (morally however, it was the right thing to do).

    It's interesting that Toyota and Honda were percieved to not being European teams when one was based in Germany and was run as an almost seperate entity to the main company and the other was based here in the Uk although with bigger ties to the main company. It's Similar to how the new Mercedes Team is being stated as a German team when the car and the engine are both built in the UK.

    As for the signing of the concorde agreement to secure the future of a team, I think this was a tough call either way. Signing it could have serious repurcussions as Toyota seem to be finding out whereas not signing could carry less of a penalty (be it applied immediately or at any time in the future should the manufacturer wish to return, which may happen to Toyota). Pro's and cons had to be weighed up either way and at the end of the day, your first responsibility has to be to the parent company. It's easy to judge in hindsight but at the time, not so easy.
     
  18. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #18 VIZSLA, Dec 11, 2009
    Truth of the matter is we really don't know the particulars of what happened in any of these cases. We don't even know the details of the basic arrangement under which the sport operates.
     
  19. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    #19 Tifoso1, Dec 11, 2009
    I completely agree. Which brings me back to my original question, " Where are the manufacture-based team basher ? " or does Renault get a free pass just like BMW did simply because they are not a Japanese team ? Where are these die-hard fans that only cares about the sport and not the teams or the drivers of this sport ?
     

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