You Never Know Who The Cops Are...

Zack, your arguments are ridiculous and you sound foolish. The above quote is unbelievable because you're basically saying the odds are smaller that what people think, hence its ok. No, any percentage increase from normal safe driving to this are unacceptable. Any increased chance of this kid killing himself or others, is unacceptable.

The kid broke the law and was cited for every instance of it. No one forced him to do it. Why would the cop cut him a break? The cop was doing his job.

I think he got what he deserved. And I also think you're lashing out.

 

The ticket was well deserved. It wasn't just speeding, he was inciting to street race, multiple times. Also, the cop did cut the kid a break, he gave the kid a thoughtful warning ("you know there might be cops around"), which the kid chose to ignore because he was too arrogant. Another break was that the cop was willing to ignore violations 1-3 when they happened, if the kid had stopped any time up to the last peel-out, he would have been let off. When you're that stupid, you need the book thrown at you; otherwise he might walk away with the thought: "gee, I did all that in front of the cop and that wuss just let me off with a lecture, I can get away with this after all".

 

No, just the tow was $400...the cop wrote it would cost him at least $400 just to get the car back. The citation fines are undetermined at present, but you can bet they will be several hundred if not thousands. You can add comprehension to your list of things to learn.

 

Not lashing out at anyone, merely stating my opinion that the cops' treatment of the kid was over the top. I usually don't get pulled over, and I mostly get let off even if I am stopped...I am polite and respectful to cops, and I obey the law.

 

How do you know his daddy bought him a nice car?

Coming from you, that's rich!

 

I didn't say it's ok, ever. I am just saying that the odds are very, very small, so to use that and argue that it's a certainty that he would have wrecked or killed himself and or others is ridiculous.

An over the top reaction to a non-event is also equally ridiculous. Statistically, while driving, most people commit at least one moving violation every 1/2 mile. Nobody gets tickets every half-mile. Does that mean cops are not doing their job? Why should they cut anyone a break?

Don't be stupid. The world revolves around common sense and reason, not rigid enforcement of every little statute. Cops do cut breaks ALL the time. They are still doing their job.

 

Zack, although cops do go on power trips sometimes, in this case, what he did was justified IMO.

Think about it. This isn't just some kid who stopped at street light and revved his engines signalling that he wanted to race, what he did was MUCH worse. He used verbal abusement multiple times, harassed, tailgated, followed the guy for quite a long time, on top of street racing and speeding. That is intimidating, dangerous, and a whole bunch of things. That's probably enough to give an old lady a heart attack. It is pretty much criminal behavior. And he probably does this quite often, a few nights a week... think of all the innocent people he harassed. He NEEDED to be taught a big lesson, or else he's just going to keep on harassing people. If he just stopped at a light, revved his engine and tried to race the officer, and then left him alone after getting rejected, then no I don't think he deserves what he got... but in this case, he really needed some significant consequences to learn his lesson, a slap on the wrist just won't do it.

 

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Which ticket--he got four (yes I know they are all on the same summons)? The tow? I agree that one ticket would be well-deserved. Four? Come on! And a tow? Please. Well, we can all pat ourselves on the back that the streets are safe now...except I bet someone is driving drunk within a mile of this incident.

Yes, and the other guy didn't take the bait. So, there was no street race.

Please, that's not a warning. It's a mild statement that could be made by anyone. "There are cops around," or "I am a cop"...those would be more assertive and more along the lines of a real warning.

You are treating each of these as separate items because that suits you...in reality, it's all part of one evening of being out and about, being stupid, being young and foolish, what have you. You want to nitpick, you can easily find 100 things that "he got a break for"...

I don't know how stupid the kid is...sure, he was acting stupid. Nobody is denying that...but do you really need the book thrown at you for being stupid? Is that a cure for stupidity? I don't think so. That said, I will agree with you 100% if this kid wore his pants lower than his boxers . I guess we need pictures.

Is this what you think if a cop gives you a break? I usually think I was lucky and I better cool it and not push my luck. I don't take breaks as an invitation to push my luck even further, and I would wager most other people don't.

Again, I would agree with all of you if this kid wears his pants like they do in the hood.

 

OK, I can see your point of view, even though I don't agree with all of it.

The tailgating is a big no-no. Speeding too, maybe, although there are many places where you have to be on drugs to stay under the speed limit. Everything else...revving, thumbs up, peeling out, verbal abuse, challenging to a race, meh, it's dick behavior, sure, but I think the reaction is overblown. And I don't think he does it to anyone and everyone, certainly not old ladies who could have a heart attack...just nice cars with young males. They would hardly be intimidated.

Not condoning the behavior, but it's hardly terrorizing the streets, like it's being made out to be. And I don't think he needs to have the book thrown at him to learn his lesson. One or two tickets would be plenty for that. Also, never underestimate the power of a royal bollocking (a stern telling-off)...

 

Very appropriate reaction. I wish these kinds would get caught more often. The real trouble is when the other person accepts this coward's offer and now you have 2 cars, in traffic, speeding, and letting hormones and ego get in the way of good judgement.

 

That idiot (to say the least) deserved what he got...

 

If you think all that **** that he did doesn't warrant the consequences issued, what do YOU think has to happen to warrant the cops reaction?
Did he have to get into a huge crash? Kill someone? Kill himself? He got what he deserved and what he needed. If the cop didn't do what he did, and just gave him a speeding ticket or a warning, he would just keep doing what he does until one day, he's going to crash, get hurt, die, hurt or kill someone else, harass someone who isn't in the best of moods and is carrying a weapon, whatever.

 

That's pure conjecture on your part, and incorrect, IMO.

In my opinion, a stern telling off, and a ticket, would have curbed the behavior just as effectively. You say all of those horrible things would happen with such conviction, when it's nothing more than a guess on your part. Statistically, you'd be wrong even if he didn't change his behavior, and I am saying he would have. But nobody knows, not you, not me. So, to assert that it would definitely happen is certainly incorrect.

 

Wow, what a strange turn this thread has taken.

1. The Nissan driving kid got what he deserved. He acted like a fool; so he shall be treated as one.

Anytime that you follow somebody; chances are that they feel threatened. I would have called 911. This kid got a lesson he wont soon forget. Throw the book at them, and maybe they will learn the err of their ways.

This has nothing to do with "drag racing" or "street racing" IMO.

 

Better to be sure. I was a troubled youth, and a stern "telling off" wouldn't have affected me in the least. Not proud of it, but a few tickets, car towed, and parents finding out about the incident would have definitely left a greater impact. A guess, but I feel a person getting this punishment is much less likely to do it again versus someone with a stern warning and ticket from the police.

 

When you were a kid, did a stern telling off stop you from doing some of the stuff you were doing? I know if my mom told me to stop playing video games, I wouldn't stop, it would take the video games getting taken away before I actually listened.

But we don't want even the possibility of him getting back on the road the next night harassing other drivers with dangerous driving and verbal abuse. Yes, you don't know, I don't know, just like how we wouldn't know if he would learn his lesson with just a warning, but we sure as hell want to minimize his chances. That's how life works dude. You NEED to lay down the spanking if someone does something wrong, or else people just don't learn, some still don't learn even after the punishment. By your logic, we should let murderers off the hook with 5 years instead of a 25-to-life sentence, because he might learn his lesson? I don't want to take that chance, sorry.

 

A few years ago a young grad student and recent father was killed while working one night delivering pizzas. Two kids street racing smashed into him and killed him on the spot. I wish that officer had "overreacted" to one of both of those drivers.

On two separate occasions I have had a person, coincidentally in a Nissan 300 zx, try similar tactics with me, once in my Ferrari and once in my GT-R. I wish that officer had been around then. I'd personally like to meet that officer and shake his hand. He showed a great deal of patience and gave the other individual plenty of opportunity to drive away. The kid deserved everything he got.

 

Before I partially agree with Zack I think his past should be taken into account. If they ran his license showed a clear record than I would understand Zack's side. Kid had his ego inflamed and one/two tickets would have put him back onto his level. A rather aggressive discussion including such items as, "I could give you this, this, this, this..." or something related to deaths and street racing would be very useful.

If he had previous items on his record than I agree with what has been done. He didn't engage warned and everything. Props to the officer for his composer and to the kid and his friend, ah boy.

Just FYI this is coming from a 20 year old Nissan Skyline driver

 

If the kid was let off easy, then I think he would've been bragging about it the next day and back doing the same thing the next night, no lesson learned. Hopefully this will make him think twice about his driving habits.

On a side note, how does a Police Officer afford a 335i?

 

I know you're not from the US, but just so you're aware, people actually do die every weekend in the US from racing or screwing around. Just in my senior year of high school, with only a few miles of my house, 4 kids were killed in accidents from behavior like this. It's really not a joke. I cannot tell you how many times I've read reports about people killing themselve, or worst others, because of behavior like this while I was in college. You greatly under estimate the number of deaths every year in the US from dooshebags with fast car.

Mark

 

Statistically speaking? What are the odds? And what peer-reviewed study can you cite?

Zack, you have been extremely combative in language and intent with your posts. You're reaping the rewards of a belligerent attitude. Don't drag me into your little tiff, because I won't be on your side.

Picking at the accuracy of someone's typing rather than the validity of their argument shows a lack of substance in your own position. And if you'd like surveys to be cited, I suggest you cite some of your own (see my above comment).

As for parental involvement... the kid was over the age of 18 so legally an adult. The police cannot call the kids parents or legal guardians like they could have done if he was 17, because in the eyes of the law he is an adult.

And yet, these days, many 18 and 19 year olds are financially still dependent upon their parents. So the only way the officer had to make sure the parents were involved to correct the boys dangerous attitudes was to hit him financially with the citations that were earned (there's no arguing they're appropriate) and to have the car towed so he had to call for a lift home.

Agreed. This was not a case of inadvertently exceeding the speed limit or even wilfully driving a little bit too quickly - it was bald aggression and deserved to be punished for all the reasons we've discussed.

I disagree. I think you have responded with disproportionate animosity and generally conducted yourself with the utmost derision for your forum peers. There are ways to counter with the stated position without descending into ignominy. Your position may be valid as a point of debate, but you've defended it very poorly.

An observation I had for obeying the law... if you were really doing that then you wouldn't be stopped at all unless in error. Police officers cannot pull a car over without just cause, and if you weren't breaking the law in the first place then you wouldn't need to be "let off" anything - you would instead simply prove your innocence.

The two times I've been pulled over, it was because the police had thought I had stolen the car I was driving. The first time, I was 18 and in my parents' BMW; the police didn't think I looked old enough to be driving or to have possession of a car that expensive. So I was pulled over and they checked my license and that I was named on the insurance. With everything checking out, I was let on my way with their apologies. The second time, I had just taken delivery of my new registration MINI (it was only a week old) and I was driving through an area where a MINI of the same colour and with a similar registration plate was stolen from the forecourt of a dealership - they inadvertently pulled me over thinking they had the right car. I was let on my way again with an apology when all my paperwork checked out.

All the best,
Andrew.

 

Well, hindsight being what it is, had the off-duty displayed his badge at the first encounter it would have cooled the kids jets right then. Glad nothing happened while they were still playing around. With any luck the kid learned a lesson - at least for a while.

Mouthing off is certainly poor taste, tailgating a no-no, but I did way too much street racing as a kid to judge that part of it (although there were less cars and people around, and other than a blown engine, clutch or u-joint we never wrecked anything).

While "speed contest" and "exhibition of speed and power" are family words from my youth, they didn't treat them as severely as they do today.

Cops have a tough job, I support what they do.

 

Because if he bought the car with his money at 18, he would have cabbed back home and try not to involve his dad. Of course im assuming that, but that is what i would have done. That is what i did when i crashed my car. I didnt call my parents, i called a friend, limped the car back to my garage and called a tow truck the next day.

And how is this rich coming from me ?

 

Andrew; could not have said it better myself. This is for you!
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To assume that everyone would react as you do, is naieve. From what you have said, this kid acted quite differently from how you conduct yourself. That should be the first clue that his mind does not work the same way yours does.

While this may have been effective for you, it may not have been for this kid. Based on how he was acting, combined with his dad's reaction (being upset about how the cop handled things), would lead me to believe that something so innocuous would not have cut it for this kid.

If I were a betting man, I would bet that this kid won't change anyhow. Odds are his parents will pay the fines and get his car back. If that happens there is no lesson learned.

Working in the criminal justice system, I have seen far to many people like this kid who are used to getting bailed out by mom and dad. I know how my dad would have handled this situation: he would have got the car out of impound, but made me work my tail off to pay the fines and impound fees. Then when everything was paid, I still would have had to call my friends for rides for a few months, he would have made damn sure life was uncomfortable for me for while. I plan on being the same way with my son. Free to make mistakes and free to pay the consequences.

While cops cut people breaks all the time, they are not obligated to. As such I firmly believe that if you do the crime, you do the time.

You can choose your choices, but you can not choose your consequences.