what kind of fitting is this? NFC | FerrariChat
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what kind of fitting is this? NFC

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Pantdino, Dec 20, 2009.

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  1. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2004
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    #1 Pantdino, Dec 20, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I want to take the oil cooler out of the circuit on my Fiat Abarth vintage racer because I drive it on the street and the cooler makes it hard to get enough oil temp up.

    I assumed the fittings were DIN 2353 because the OD of the tubing is 12mm and the car was built in Germany, but I find the fittings I bought won't work because the nuts are slightly too big and the wrong pitch. DIN 2353 fittings use 12mm x1.25 thread and these are 1.5 or some close SAE equivalent and slightly smaller than 12mm.

    It's not 1/2" because even the 12mm nut is too big for it and it's not 3/8" because that would be too small.

    The OD of the pipe is 12mm, the ID is 10mm, and the OD of the male threads is 18.3mm, 0.722"

    Any ideas as to what this fitting is?
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  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Steve Magnusson, Dec 20, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2009
    How about the light duty version of DIN 3902 (on pages 24 & 25 as labeled on the pages themselves):

    http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/e-srov-ts009-e.pdf

    Can you confirm/deny the 24 deg conical sealing shape in the male half?

    (although I don't like that you measure the male thread OD as slightly greater that 18 mm)
     
  3. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

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    #3 CliffBeer, Dec 20, 2009
    Pantdino, you might want to consider installing an inline thermostat, similar to what an aircooled 911 has. I believe Summit Racing and other internet retailers sell inline thermostats of different settings and end fittings. That way you can have the best of both worlds (a cooler for track work, and oil that comes up to temp for street time).
     
  4. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    #4 Pantdino, Dec 20, 2009
    The other issue is that the system has a second oil filter in it which does not have a standpipe. So when you start the car for the first time there are several seconds of no oil pressure. The filter is an original canister type, so I can't just screw on a different filter. My goal is to have a bypass tube that can be easily removed and the cooler reconnected for strenuous events.
     
  5. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    #5 Pantdino, Dec 20, 2009
    I rechecked the measurements and I believe the OD of the male thread is 18mm. I get the ID of the female at 16.55 but I can't get the arm of the micrometer in all the way because of the female nut. So it is probably 16.5.

    I have no way of measuring the exact angle but it is much less than the 37degrees most fittings use. I believe the ferrule engages inside the male (filter housing) end -- you can see a little line in the ferrule.

    But this looks like the right fitting.

    I have emailed the previous owner / builder of the car, but he seldom checks his email.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 Steve Magnusson, Dec 21, 2009
    It's not uber-accurate, but, if you cut a 24 deg wedge out of some thin cardboard (like from the back of a notepad), you can use this a rough 2-D gauge to confirm/deny the cone angle.
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 fatbillybob, Dec 21, 2009
    without more research it looks like just a tube fitting. But...I got a better idea. Keep the oil cooler and just make a rectangular aluminium cover to slide over the cooler. Then one day when you run that car on the track or its a really hot day you can just slide off the cover and go. You can also splice in a thermostat which cuts oil to the cooler like a thermostat in the cooling system. Problem with t stats is that they do take some oil pressure away. That's why lots of guys who dual use their cars on the track opt for covering oil coolers instead of t-stating them.
     
  8. Mike Florio

    Mike Florio Formula Junior

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    #8 Mike Florio, Dec 21, 2009
    I was contemplating installing up a second oil cooler on my '75 308/GT4. My plan was to make up an Aeroquip hose from the top of the oil cooler across the back firewall to a new fan-cooled unit with -AN fittings and an inline thermostat, then back to join up with the existing return line (formerly attached to the top of the oil cooler).

    The fittings on the oil cooler were exactly like the ones you show in your photograph. I spent months trying to find matching fittings. I tried just about every online source. I took the cooler to several Hydraulic shops in Reno (lots of farming and mining equipment around here) and they all said they had never seen that type of fitting before. My son, a certified ASME Hydraulics Tech called it a "Frankenstein Fitting" and recommended I replace everything form the banjo bolts on the engine, new lines, new oil cooler/fan, etc., with -AN stuff.

    My oil cooler was just fine. I filled it with solvent/thinner and it didn't leak a drop for two weeks. I ended up fitting a 7" Spaal puller fan on the output side of the oil cooler, but if that doesn't work in the summer I'll probably go with my son's recommendation.
     
  9. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #9 smg2, Dec 21, 2009
    looks like a Ferulok 24* fitting;

    Parker info:
     
  10. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    #10 Pantdino, Dec 21, 2009
    the second filter and oil cooler are full-flow. All the oil goes thru them. So any thermostat would have to provide for bypass of the flow back to the return line.

    Is that what the thermostats you describe do?

    I would still have to find fittings to connect what I have to what I bought
     
  11. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    #11 Pantdino, Dec 21, 2009
    I have found some cutaway diagrams of the DIN 3902 parts and I'm sure that's what I have. They match exactly, from what I can tell.

    I have a call into the owner of the company where I got the other DIN parts to see if he can get me the new ones.

    I really don't want to switch my car to AN fittings-- I'd rather keep it European.
     
  12. Pantdino

    Pantdino Formula 3

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    #12 Pantdino, Dec 21, 2009
    thanks for the idea but the ferrule looks quite a bit different than the Ferulok one.

    The DIN 2353 system also works on a "ferrule that bites into the tube" system, as do, I suspect, many others
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #13 fatbillybob, Dec 22, 2009
    yes and it depends on your setup because I dod not know what the abarth looks like. sometimes you can use a sandwich oil cooler adapter between block and filter and it has the bypass tstat port. Sometimes it is no problem to find an adaptor that is nonsandwich like what the vette guys use. A fiat may be popular enough to find such an adaptor.
     
  14. Mike Florio

    Mike Florio Formula Junior

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    #14 Mike Florio, Dec 22, 2009
    That's my philosophy also. I expect my fan to make a small difference in stop-and-go traffic, but the cooler may just not have the capacity for these hot Nevada summers and the thin, dry air. I'm interested to hear if the DIN 3902 fittings work. I'd love to embarrass my Hydraulics guru.

    The inline thermostats I researched at Summit (also located in Reno) are just electrical sensors like the radiator fan sensors. They are designed to turn on a fan but I suppose you could use one to electrically operate a valve through a relay.

    A couple of notes on things my son warned me of: you must carefully match the flow diameters of all the components. If you drop down a hose size in the system it will increase the pressure upstream of the new hose. If you go up a hose size it will decrease the pressure upstream. Also, if you install an electrically-operated valve to dynamically switch the additional cooler into and out of the circuit there will be a momentary pressure drop upstream of the valve when it opens, and a pressure spike when it closes.

    I also talked to my other son, who is a Mechanical Engineer and his response was "Fluid Dynamics is scary stuff, leave it alone." Which son should I listen to?
     

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