Watch out Paul B, not far from your work. Did anyone seriously think they were only going to place them near schools??? http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/189914.asp Evildoers beware: Bellevue puts up more red light cameras Intersections now have more eyes in Bellevue. On Monday, the city began using cameras to catch drivers running red lights at two intersections on 148 Avenue Northeast. This expands the use of cameras in Bellevue beyond catching speeders in school zones. The new cameras are at Main Street and Bel-Red Road. For a month, police will issue only warnings. But after Feb. 2, you will be sent a citation and be fined $124 if the camera catches you running a red light. In September, Bellevue put up cameras to watch on speeders near Stevenson and Lake Hills elementary schools.
They are all over the state now, the flood gates have opened. I saw them in Moses Lake a couple weeks ago...
Watch out when you are cutting through the bypass near Issaquah High school. Red light camera set up for 25mph. Vic
I passed by a standard street sign for a school zone that had the statement "when children are present" on it. Are school photo tickets taking this one step further and removing that condition ? I searched on line for the RCW laws and could not find that phrase embedded in the law
Scott, you are right. The Issaquah HS sign says when children are present--20mph, but the normal speed is 25mph anyway. No margin for error! Vic
Depending which way I drive to work I go through at least one or as many as three school zones. They are all posted with slight variations here. Some have specific times and some say when children are present. Seems this is one area that you would really want to have a standard posting for??
According to a Herald article, in Lynnwood the speed cameras are only active when "students are in the school building(s)". I don't know if this is true though...
Often wondered why we need to slow down when the kids are in the building? I can understand before and after school, even recess.
Because it is not stopping with red lights. As the examples shown above, it has carried over to speed enforcement. It has been proven in several municipalities (none in the NW yet) that they have diliberately shortened the yellow light in order to "catch" more people running red lights. I personally know of instances where the speed cameras in school zones are started up 2 hours before school is actually in session, and no children are present. This is not about safety, it is all about revenue generation. Don't think for a minute it will stop with only these two areas of enforcement. Incrementalism will take hold, and it will only grow... If this was about safetly, then why do red light and speed enforcement by cameras not counted against your driving record, it is purely a monetary fine?
And because the red-light cameras create more accidents than they prevent. That can't be safe can it?
It seems that people think that the yellow light means to haul-ass and try and make it thru before it turns red? This is not true, its a warning of the impending red light and to stop safely if possible. Obvoiusely if your at the light when it turns yellow there is no time to stop, but I believe most push this to the limit. I've seem many people do this while waiting at a light, mine turns green and people are still blasting thru the intersection trying to beat the yellow. very unsafe. perhaps they are trying to stop this unsafe habit people have formed?
You're probably right Dave. I don't have the data but I can almost gaurantee you there have been more rear-end accidents in the left hand turn lane leading to my house since they put in the camera, than there were total accidents at the intersection from people running the light for years before that. There were two alone in one weekend not long ago. The fun part is that it is an odd, off angle, tight corner and the light is never predictable. Sometimes it stays green for what seems like forever and other times it starts turning after only one or two cars have gone through. I agree that overall it would likely be hard to prove but the bottom line is that it is still, at least in my eyes, more about money than safety.
You tell me: http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/ 6 Cities That Were Caught Shortening Yellow Light Times For Profit March 26th, 2008 Posted in Red-Light Cameras, Yellow Light Duration Short yellow light times at intersections have been shown to increase the number of traffic violations and accidents. Conversely, increasing the yellow light duration can dramatically reduce red-light violations at an intersection. Some local governments have ignored the safety benefit of increasing the yellow light time and decided to install red-light cameras, shorten the yellow light duration, and collect the profits instead. Here are some of the cities that have been caught with short yellow light times over the past few years: Important note: These news stories were collected from the archives of TheNewspaper.com, an excellent resource for anyone interested in traffic laws and other motorist issues. If you subscribe to TheNewspaper.com’s feed, you’ll never miss the latest news. It makes an excellent complement to this blog. 1) Chattanooga, Tennessee The city of Chattanooga was forced refund $8800 in red light cameras tickets issued to motorists trapped by an illegally short yellow time. The refund only occurred after a motorist challenged his citation by insisting that the yellow light time of 3.0 seconds was too short. LaserCraft, the private vendor that runs the camera program in return for a cut of the profits, provided the judge with a computer database that asserted the yellow was 3.8 seconds at that location. The judge then personally checked the intersection in question was timed at three seconds while other nearby locations had about four seconds of yellow warning. City traffic engineer John Van Winkle told Bean that “a mix up with the turn arrow” was responsible and that the bare minimum for the light should be 3.9 seconds. Read the Full Story 2) Dallas, Texas An investigation by KDFW-TV, a local TV station, found that of the ten cameras that issued the greatest number of tickets in the city, seven were located at intersections where the yellow duration is shorter than the bare minimum recommended by the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT). The city’s second highest revenue producing camera, for example, was located at the intersection of Greenville Avenue and Mockingbird Lane. It issued 9407 tickets worth $705,525 between January 1 and August 31, 2007. At the intersections on Greenville Avenue leading up to the camera intersection, however, yellows are at least 3.5 or 4.0 seconds in duration, but the ticket-producing intersection’s yellow stands at just 3.15 seconds. That is 0.35 seconds shorter than TxDOT’s recommended bare minimum. Dallas likewise installed the cameras at locations with existing short yellow times. A total of twenty-one camera intersections in Dallas had yellow times below TxDOT’s bare minimum recommended amount. The ticket camera program in Dallas made the news recently for shutting down some of its cameras because they were no longer profitable. Read the Full Story 3) Springfield, Missouri The city of Springfield, Missouri prepared for the installation of a red light camera system in 2007 by slashing the yellow warning time by one second at 105 state-owned intersection signals across the city. The city defended its effort to the Springfield News-Leader by claiming it was “standardizing” and had increased the yellow time at 136 city-operated lights to meet national standards. During the city council meeting last October where the red light camera ordinance was approved, however, Assistant Director of Public Works Earl Newman gave a different explanation for the reduction. Newman said he was, “concerned that many individuals run the light if the light remained yellow too long.” Read the Full Story 4) Lubbock, Texas KBCD, a local television station, exposed the city’s short timing of yellow lights at eight of the twelve intersections where the devices were to be installed. Prior to the news investigation, Lubbock City Engineer Jere Hart assured city council members that he would not increase yellow times. According to the city council’s traffic commission minutes of September 19, 2006, Jere said, “if [the red light camera program is] implemented, the public would prefer to have an increased amber cycle,” but he stated that, “the program will not adjust the amber/yellow time.” Shortly after the investigation became public, red-light cameras were installed in Lubbock. However, after they proved to be both unprofitable (due in part to a new state law giving 50% of the ticket camera profit to the state) and unsafe (accidents increased where the cameras were installed), they were taken down. Read the Full Story 5)Nashville, Tennessee Even without red light cameras, police in Nashville, Tennessee have been earning hundreds of thousands in revenue by trapping motorists in conventional ticket traps at city intersections with the shortest yellow warning time. In 2006, Nashville resident Joe Savage obtained the data on every red light running ticket issued on Broadway street since 2000. He said that yellow lights are longer at intersections along Broadway until the areas where police are issuing tickets. At those locations, Savage clocked the yellow signal time at less than 3 seconds, in violation of both state law and federal regulations. A local newspaper, The Nashville Scene, then confirmed his findings. Read the Full Story 6) Union City, California In 2005, Union City, California was caught trapping motorists with a yellow signal time 1.3 seconds below the minimum established by state law. As a result, the city was forced to refund more than $1 million in red light camera fines. The city’s violation came to light after Dave Goodson, an engineer, received a ticket and realized that he did not have sufficient time to stop before the light had turned red. As a result of his inquiries, Union City’s traffic engineers admitted that they had set the yellow signal time at Union City Boulevard and Lowry Road at 3 seconds, despite the state law mandating the time be 4.3 seconds or greater. Authorities said that the yellow was too short long before the cameras were installed, but that no effective system was in place to verify the timing of the traffic signals despite their direct impact on safety. Read the Full Story Closing Notes: These are only the cities that have been caught; it’s likely that this happens much more than the general public has been led to believe. Many cities avoid the bad publicity involved with shortening yellow lights by installing the cameras at intersections with inadequate yellow light times from the beginning. If you or a family member receive an unjustified red-light violation ticket, it may be worth your time to check the yellow light duration at the intersection where the ticket was given out. Also, if you know of any city currently shortening yellow lights in your area, let everyone know by posting it the comments of this post.
It's been awhile since I was up in Canada (read: weak dollar) but if I recall, their lights would flash yellow before actually turning yellow. This gives people much more "light is turning soon" time -- so much so that it is difficult to gauge from a further distance if you ought to gun it or slow down... and i'd guess most people will slow down because there is a lot more time to come to a controlled stop. Of course, a timer would be the ultimate in transparency. Even a lot of crosswalks now have actual timing countdowns appear next to the flashing hand, especially here in Bellevue. This is so the person can tell "hey should i walk briskly or maybe i ought to stop and wait because in 1 second i can't get across six lanes of traffic." This might be a bit much for vehicles; I think the green => flashing yellow => yellow => red sequence would be a much better one. I know it doesn't generate any revenue for the city in these dark economic times though...
Curious to see what our state minimum duration time is. It seems that the yellow near my house is noticabley shorter than I remember it being but there is no camera there. I just treat the yellow as a red and stop, no worries then. If the city can be proven in violation perhaps someone can authenticate this and turn them in. It seems to me that more people are blaming the state for enforcing the laws that impeed with their poor/illeagle driving habbits.
