1965 Ferrari 275GTB Vin 07333 // Engine 07237

Hello all, I am new to the forum and looking for some help!

i recently bought the above car and have managed to trace most of the history and owners. It is a USA specification Model - Though built to North American specifications, the Ferrari was delivered new to Swiss race car driver Willy-Peter Daetwyler, in Italy at the Modena factory. The car spent the early part of its life in Switzerland before moving to California with Daetwyler.

there have been 4 further owners.

But the big mystery..................
This car went through most of its later life, as a matching number car Chassis and Engine 07333. But the truth was discovered in 2008 when the car was submitted for the Ferrari Classiche. It transpired that the engine, although stamped 07333 was in fact another 275 GTB engine, originally stamped 07237. This was discovered when the Internal Numbers were checked. Fortunately the engine is the correct type 213 for a 275 GTB, and as such provided no problem for the Ferrari Classiche. The Engine was sent back to the factory in Maranello, where Ferrari restamped the engine block, amended the records for the car, and certified the engine as a correct 275 GTB type.

I am trying to find the correct matching number engine for my car 07333,
but also trying to locate the 275 GTB with the engine number 07237 ie chassis number 07237.

Any help or additional info on the car would be greatfully appreciated.

regards
Mark

 

The car is now with me in London, although spending pretty much all its life in the USA.
thanks

 

Should you want the shop service manual for this car pm me and I'll send you a link.

Best

 

The car has had EIGHT (8) owners, not just 4 further owners as mentioned. It was me who discovered that the engine is non-matching and I always notified the various dealers involved. That doesn't mean that they listened to me, however. The car was never in Switzerland, it was in Monaco, where Daetwyler lived. He received it with Italian Tourist license plates "EE 02289" (EE=Escursionisti Esteri). The car was serviced at the Factory Assistenza Clienti (Customer Dept.) in Modena twice: 7 June 1965 (car had 1'580 miles), and again 23 August 1965 (now with 9'434 miles). I have all the dox to prove this.
Original exterior color was: Argento 106-E-1.
Original interior color was: Rosso VM 3171.
Assembly sequence #156.
I also know where the other car is (07237).

[email protected]
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Hi Marcel,
Thank you very much for this information, this is great news to get a response so quickly, just incredible! Also fantastic news that you previously spotted the engine number being incorrect, at least now everything is correct at the factory and Maranello have all the records updated.

When did you make the discovery about the engine? Do you know what year it was changed or any other information that may help me track down engine 07333?

When I said "there have been 4 further owners" I was implying after Daetwyler and including myself. So I am aware of 5 owners in total, not including dealers or consignment sales:

1st owner: May 1965 - 1981 - Willy-Peter Daetwyler
then on consignment with Bruce Craig Lavachek or was he an owner?
2nd owner: 1981 - 1983 - Bill Locke
then on consignment with Nostalgia Cars - Not sold
then on consignment with Rittermark Porsche
3rd owner: 1983 - 2004 - Henry E Payne III
then on consignment with Michael Sheehan
4th owner: 2004 - 2009 - Scott Stupay
then on consignment with Autosport Designs - Not sold
then entered in The RM Auction, Monetery
5th owner: 2009 - present -myself Mark McCracken

According to your records is this correct, or are there more hidden owners and history?

I had the early service and tourist plate information from Ferrari Market Letter's Gerald Roush, but thank you for correcting me about the car being in Monaco and not Switzerland. What are the dox you have to show the early history, is it possible to get a copy to keep with the car's history?

Thank you for the exact codes on paint and interior, very helpful as it is my intention to return the car to its original colour and interior.

Is there anyway I can get in touch with the owner of 275GTB Chassis 07237, just on the total outside chance engine 07333 is in his car?

Marcel, thank you so much for your help and information, you are a font of knowledge! Do you mind if i get in touch with you for a chat and to share any further information?

kindest regards
Mark

 

Welcome to the website, and enjoy your car!

This DOES sound like a good mystery....

 

Is it possible that this car has always had this engine and Ferrari paper work simply included a mistake on the internal number?

I guess tracking down the other car might answer this question but if their engine appeared correctly stamped, opening it up to check the internal numbers would be a pain ...
Pete

 

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome and replies.

The Internal number is actually on the outside of the block, so easy to see - but only the ferrari factory have the information of which engine number matches with which internal number.

the following is a good post with some actual pictures:
http://www.330gt.com/serial_numbers.htm

As Marcel pointed out he know the car 07237 which would have left the factory with my engine. Somewhere out there is the factory engine for my car 07333!

thanks again for helping me piece together the puzzle.

regards
mark

 

Wasn't the 275GTB the last series to HAVE "matching numbers"??

You are assuming only the TWO cars were involved!

Hopefully, that is the case.....or your engine went "walkabout" into the sportscar racing program somewhere...LOL!

 

Sorry my bad use of English, sometimes happens being Scottish!

I should have typed: As Marcel pointed out he knows the car with the chassis number 07237 which would have left the factory with the engine that is currently in my car (engine 07237).

Somewhere out there is the factory engine for my car 07333 - ie it left the factory with matching numbers.

I wish there were just the 2 cars involved, engine 07333 could be anywhere: scrapped and melted, in a race car, in a recreation, re-stamped as something else to give the impression of a matching number car - absolutely anywhere

 

This could be a very interesting thread to follow!

One question though - has the original engine that 'rightfully' belongs to another car (matching numbers) now been restamped to match your car, thereby leaving that other car without the existance of a matching engine? It's not that it can't be found (as you may have the ability to do), but it really no longer exists...

 

Mark,

Very interesting story and congrats on the purchase. Would you be kind enough to share photos with us as the car is now, please? Is the car still Argento/Rosso?

Thanks and welcome to F Chat.

Steve

 

first, love your car and its story. Why did Classiche feel the need to re-stamp an original motor? Why not just certify that that motor #07237 w/ internal motor # 398/64 was original to the car?? So now what happens when motor 07333 surfaces? there are two?

This is no reflection on you; I am just baffled by Classiche's compulsion to mess with or "clean up" history. Makes you wonder what they're going to do when a car the Factory re-stamped back in the day comes rolling thru the door for certification . . .

 

Wasn't there a lengthy thread on here about 7333? With the owner chiming in, etc.?

A quick search on "7333" didn't find it, but I could swear I remember it.

 

The way I understand the posts by the OP and Marcel, the engine story goes like this...

The OP bought the car, believing at the time the engine was the original unit. At the time the engine was stamped #07333.

Marcel (before OP's purchase) and then later Classiche (after OP's purchase) determined the engine had been restamped and the correct number was actually #07237 through decoding the internal number.

Classiche rectified the discrepancy by restamping the engine again, this time to the correct #07237.

If I'm correct above, I believe Classiche has done the right thing in correcting the stamping on this engine. It now bears its correct number, verified by the internal number, which is not original to the chassis it is now housed within.

I wish the OP luck in finding the original engine for his car, it would be an incredible ending to this story.

 

i concur w/ apexoversteer. that is how i understand it.
ed

 

thank you sir, you have saved me answering. you are absolutely correct.
regards
Mark

 

Mark,

Any photos of the car? I'd love to see it.

Mike in Kuwait

 

Here are a few pix of 07333 taken 13 August 2009 at Monterey. Car was sold at RM Auction, final price US$ 605'000 including buyer's premium.
COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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Pictures of the previous owner (Scott Stupay) racing the car.
Will post some more soon.
thanks
Mark
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+1

Grazie!

Gr. Martin

 

Beautiful car! Looks like the one which was for sale on ebay, same campagnolo wheels.
Will be even more beautiful in the original colour.

About engine changes.
If you call the mounting of the engine in the factory a "marriage", would you call the removal a "divorce"? And the fitting of another engine "remarriage"?
If the car feels good with the new "wife", why get back the original one...? ;-)

 

Thanks! dont think it was ever on ebay but may be wrong.

I think i may be stuck with the new wife as a i fear the old one has vanished for good! But new one is strong and powerful and doesnt smoke or rattle on - which is a very good thing.

 

No, it's 07447, just looks like yours.
See a recent thread here in Vintage section.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269909