Looking at a Countach tomorrow

This incident Joe speaks of is correct. One EXTRA that should be noted:

The "buyer" had placed and signed for a "non-refundable" credit card deposit of $5K PRIOR to flying into see the car or operate it. A few days after he returned to his home, he filed a "dispute" charge with the CC Company. He is IMO a POS and I think real shortly his ID will be coming to light.

I can tell you it WILL SHOCK many of you who he is. I have urged him, as has Joe, on behalf of the seller to remedy this situation quiclkly, with no real results. It is shame that this person has been a trusted Lamborghini collector and poster here on this boards for years. A true shame and slap in the face to all of us that trade and sell amongst us collectors.

 

Thanks Roy.

I understand how the public thinks dealers (in general, not all of course) get up to all kinds of games and practice questionable ethics. But you should see some of the things some owners get up to. This story is one of many.

 

"I can tell you it WILL SHOCK many of you who he is. I have urged him, as has Joe, on behalf of the seller to remedy this situation quiclkly, with no real results. It is shame that this person has been a trusted Lamborghini collector and poster here on this boards for years. A true shame and slap in the face to all of us that trade and sell amongst us collectors."
Post his name, as a warning to the rest of us not to do business with him, wouldnt the sellers car insurance cover any body damage? Or is it engine damage...

 

It is Body damage, not major, slight, BUT to correct to OEM standards, as on all Lamborghini's in no light of the heart issue. The SELLER should not be forced to cover it on his insurance, but may well have to and then let the insurance company pursue the would be buyer.

The would be buyer is aware AND I am sure is now or has read this. He has been given a Deadline to correct is "actions". I will leave it up to him and the seller to post any private information.

 

I think Mr. "Dealer" makes some very valid points. Most people need a Countach in the same way that they need a pet elephant. That said, if you have to have one, pony up for the best one out there. Buy cheap, buy TWICE!!

 

I don't get the problem.

1) customer damages car
2) customer turns claim to insurance co
3) insurance company legally obligated to pay any and all losses associated with damage

or if customer claims damage was associated with the condition of car:

1) customer damages car
2) customer turns claim in to his INS.
3) seller turns claim to his INS.
4) INS companies decide who pays
5) INS pays all losses

what's the problem?

Some simple free legal advice aimed at making friends!

 

I agree 100%, BUT comes to find out...customer has NO INSURANCE...so I have advised SELLER to turn into insurance, they will pay, then turn around and go after customer...plain and simple.

 

Sure, it really is simple......as long as people tell the truth and don't make **** up. I called my insurance company since I let a lot of my friends drive my cars, and I let prospective buyers drive cars that I want to sell, so I wanted to know what my insurance company would say,and I was told:
Seller's insurance is responsible if driver was authorized by seller to drive the car, and if seller doesn't have insurance, then the driver's insurance kicks in. In any case, seller's insurance is the first stop as seller is, by contract (written into the policy), legally obligated to inform his insurance company of any damage. It gets covered right there. If there is a problem with seller's insurance, then secondly, the driver's insurance kicks in. In any case, according to my insurance company, seller and buyer both are protected from any and all liability by seller's insurance since the seller authorized the driver to operate the car. Then on top of that, at a second level, the driver's insurance protects the driver from any and all liability. But this is just my policy. Everyone should check with their own policy to learn how theirs works. Anybody owning or driving an exotic should have insurance or they are idiots, and by the way, the law requires that people have insurance. So I bet the seller and the driver both had insurance If they both didn't have insurance, seller broke the law, and driver could have liability for damaging the car, but Roy, since you said in post #152 of this thread that the damage was, "....not major, slight....", those damages would probably be minor. Bottom line is obey the law and have insurance and know your policy!!! Then you won't ever have to worry.

 

Here's a possible scenario. Seller has high deductible on collision coverage, person driving is on the hook for the difference.

 

No BOTTOM line is "buyer" should MAN up and take care of the damage to a fellow Lamborghini Collector as he is. REGARDLESS of the minor or major cost of the Damage...if you drive it and break it..YOU SHOULD be MAN ENOUGH to pay for it...SIMPLE. WHY should the SELLER have to go to his insurance company and risk his rates going up..?

Thoughts like this, JUST throw it to the insurance company just cause all our rates to go up and allow the responsible party, the BUYER to skate away and go oh well, Sh$t happens..BS in my book.

After ALL SELLER did not cause the damage..BUYER did..open and shut case..

Unless of course you know something I dont Victor..?

 

I wouldn't let a buyer drive my car. You don't have to drive a car to tell
if it is running correctly and is healthy. Look how many cars sell at auction.
People don't get to drive those.

 

Although I can appreciate your point of view I don't know if I would agree with this 100%.

I could take someone for a ride in my 1984 two-valve, carbureted Countach and the car would never skip a beat. The potential buyer would think it was as reliable and as predictable as a fuel injected car. However if the deal was done and the car was shipped to the buyer without him taking it for a drive I believe he would wonder something was altered after the sale. I say this because most drivers that are new to the functionality of a carbureted two valve countach will have problems with the potential of carburetor/engine hesitation. Had the buyer been able to drive the car himself he may or may not have changed his mind on the car for this reason alone. Usually no one knows cars idiosyncrasies better than the owner and it can be these idiosyncrasies that may make or break a deal. This is also why a buyer should be well educated before searching for a particular car. Its a two way street, I myself would be reluctant to purchase a car if I were not able to test drive it before completing the deal. Tell me as a passenger can you tell if the steering wheel pulls to the left or the right without asking the driver to let go of the wheel? Sincerely Vic

 

Thats the chance you take at an auction. As far as a test drive, The FIRST thing I do when performing a PPI is a test drive. I tell all my customers, if the seller wont commit to someone test driving the vehicle, run and run fast. I agree though, that a deposit may be a good idea after the sales price has been agreed on pending a positive PPI.

 

Where there is risk there is usually the equal reward in reduced price. After all this where some of these quoted $50K Countach sale prices come from. Vic

 

+1

 

Vic:

One always has to be moving forward, and out of any negative situation comes some advancement. To deal with this issue we are developing an agreement which outlines the test driver's liability for damage that may occur during the test drive, and the procedure to be followed should the unexpected occur. You sign it before you test drive the car. No signature, no test drive. Very simple.

 

I test drove all the Lamborghinis that I purchased prior to any kind of deposit, in a few cases I test drove a Lambo that I emded up not purchasing. In all cases the owner was next to me. Never signed paperwork prior to the drive. Lucky I guess.

 

Good food for thought guys. I see your points and respect your opinions.
I will be more open minded about it.

 

Changing times.

 

Don't take my statement the wrong way, I completely agree with the liability issue here and would have no problems in signing off on a letter acknowledging these liabilities.

I however would not feel comfortable buying an exotic car that I could not test drive for the reasons that I have mentioned. Vic

 

Yes and I agree with you that's why we are developing this agreement, or we would simply say passenger rides only. I recognize the need to get the buyer behind the wheel at some point.

 

kinda thread related ...... a full Euro 1986 Countach, factory headers, carbs, no catalytic converter, no rear bumper and Euro front, no side markers , no idiot bells for seat belts, no seal beam head lights, etc. etc. will be able to enter the USA "as is" in 2011?

 

I think the worst thing I have ever dealt with selling, was motorcycles. Every single test drive by a buyer was a major flogging. You can hear them rip through the gears after they get out of eyesight. There is just no way each of these guys were Keith Code certified, lol. Some will respect others property, others not. If your going to let someone test drive, make sure you are in the car with them.

 

Si,

You can now import a 25 year old 1985 DD, from Europe (in addition to other countries / RoW) to the USA. Today, almost nobody in the U.S., is running to do just that.


The issue is the exchange rates.

If the car in Europe is sold at approx 120/150,000 Euros, what will be the final cost in dollars ? Assume approximately 1.45 Dollar to the Euro. With that, it is much less expensive to pick up a car, that is already in the USA. You also have additional overhead - freight to the port, shipping, brokerage fees, customs tax, insurance, and additional fees. Perhaps a scarce car in the Middle East, may work out for a buyer ?

Joey,

When it comes to selling an organ-donor bike, it is usually even worse. You know they want to haul ass. I was lucky with previous buyers.