Racing Simulators

Ah, yes. Triple screen goodness...
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Peter,

Is that full containment seat used to deflect the dishes being thrown at you for not coming to dinner?

 

Shouldn't this thread be moved to the video games section?

My friend has a Fanatec steering wheel for the Xbox, they made 10,000 units, he initially had issues with the pedals not working with the PS2 connection but fanatec shipped him a new set of pedals that now work. He was telling me that the FFB is amazing even to the point he can feel the ABS pulsing!

 

I hear the really good stimulators are so expensive to buy or rent that it is cheaper to just take it to the track.

 

This is what I'm working with now, but those three screen setups are looking really interesting. With a 100in. screen, it more or less does consume your whole field of vision when you're sitting close enough, but the screens wrapping around are pretty sweet. Right now, as it is more a home theater than racing sim, all I have is my PS3 hooked up for gaming, but my next project is to get a PC wired into the receiver so I can start with iracing. I have also been considering installing a "Buttkicker" on the seat for more feel. Has anyone used one or have info about them?

Mark

*insert crappy cell pics*
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No, because we're talking about simulations, which are "Other Racing" rather than video games, which are primarily for amusement. Not to sound too snippy, but when just about every major team in Formula and Sports Prototype racing, as well as many GT teams, use readily available and custom software and hardware to train/evaluate/develop drivers, we are well past the Jacques Villeneuve "learned to put it on the pole Down Under playing PlayStation."

 

I see your 3x 24" screens and raise you 3x 46"!!


Chris Considine
CXC Simulations
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Yes, I have a Buttkicker Gamer 2 as well hiding under my seat. It adds something for sure, but I don't religiously enable it. It activates based on low frequencies, so music sets it off as much as the rumble sounds from the car. You have to be a little careful with the cutoff levels for the vibration as you don't want the Buttkicker to clip a lot and somehow the hardware doesn't just deal with this automatically.

The three screen setup is still a cut above due to the tripled resolution. Regardless of the size of your main screen, the triple screen setup in Forza pumping out a larger FOV and more pixels ... it really makes your view more expansive and is a very large upgrade. I would not give that up for a single large projector. Three projectors, on the other hand?

I agree that really good simulators cost way more than just picking up a car and taking it to the track. The appeal is that you get to simulate with a massive number of cars, tracks, and driving situations any time you feel like it. Unfortunately I have very little driving/racing experience to date so I can't put too much in context, but I can feel the 911 being tail happy, the Mustang steering like a boat, and the overall stability of the R8 in the game, so there's something in there, even if I can't yet compare the experience to real life. I also know Laguna Seca by heart now, so that's handy.

In short, it has pros and cons, and quite a lot of pros really, when you think about it. A hydraulic setup is the holy grail of home simulation for me, but that's where I drew the line and just picked up a 2000 Boxster to beat up.

 

This is highly dependent on your type of track use. Race cars are expensive, not in the way you think though. The expense comes in day to day costs.

Things like:

* Car Purchase
* Consumables (tires, fuel, brakes, etc)
* Personnel Travel
* Car Transport
* Track Fees
* Insurance
* Repair Costs

For this you get maybe 2-6 hours of actual on-track-time (depending on your budget) per month. Plus, you are at the mercy of mother nature and fate.


Now, simulation will never never completely replace actual track time, but it can be a HUGE advantage as a substitution for many of your track sessions. This is only really true if you are using the right equipment and you approach it correctly.

Here are just a few things you can do with quality training simulators:

* Track Familiarization - With many simulations now offering laser-scanned tracks, accuracy is measured in millimeters. That goes for every bump, curb and even track-side objects (for great visual reference). This really allows you to plan every detail of a lap including racing line, alternative lines, passing opportunities, etc. Every track hasa very unique character. This goes so far beyond which turn goes where.

* Race Craft - When do you lay-up, push hard, conserve tires, conserve fuel? When to pass, how to pass? These are all things easily practiced in a good simulator. With some of the online racing software just now maturing, you are guaranteed to find a good, close racing field to race with at any given hour. The software will even auto match you with drivers of a similar talent level to ensure you always have someone to race with. You will learn SO much in your first online race, it will astonish you.

* Physical Training - I challenge you to drive more than 5 minutes in our simulator without working up a serious sweat! Real tactile feedback simulators are extremely physical. They work muscles you just cannot work in the gym.

* Setup Theory - This, the black art of racing that gain or loose you huge amounts of time on the tacks. There are so many ways to go that most people opt for a safe baseline setup and modify as track time allows in real life. In the simulator, you can not only try any setup conceivable, but you can learn how each adjustment affects lap time, tire and fuel conservation,and drafting. Tactile feedback simulators allow you to take this a step further and actually FEEL the difference between various minute suspension changes.

* Weather Strategies - Some software allow you to adjust weather as well. This extends far beyond a simple wet race to wind conditions, ambient and track temperatures, shadows causing track temp changes,drying lines, etc. This allows you to work on maximizing your weather skills to gain yet another skill.


The point is, you never stop learning. Weather it's at the track or on your simulator. The advantage with a simulator you can learn all of these things with no recurring costs. Oh, and by the way, all this, from the comfort of your home and with limitless track time.

Don't take my word for it though, look at the hundreds of teams and drivers now heavily relying on simulators as an essential part of their racing programs.



Chris Considine
CXC Simulations

 

Thanks Chris for this incredibly informative post. I learned a lot.

 

I want that!!!!

Who? Where? How? How much?????

Cheers,

Julio

 

OK, while I am at it I'll get real specific on some parts I want to use. I have a home theater type setup with plasma on the wall and all components (including media PC) remote. I control with Logitech RF universal remote and RF keyboard.

I have a seat/wheel/pedal combination (the wheel and pedal is for PS2 and not PC compatible)and want to have to able to wirelessly(RF not IR as there is no line of sight to my components) control iRacing. What wheel/pedal setup oes anyone recommend?

 

www.cxcsimulations.com

Well, Fanatec makes a wireless wheel but I hear a lot of mixed review there. First off, it's only the connection to the PC that's wireless (still needs power) and I hear a lot of bad things about reliability with that product as well.

My suggestion would be to just get a Logitech G27 and be really clean and simple with your wiring. The G27 will still be PS2, PS3 and PC compatible. A nice bonus

Later, when you are nice and addicted to iRacing, you should really think about upgrading the stock pedals to a really high-end set. This will make a huge difference in your driving. It's also a major cost though.

Make sure your HTPC has lots of horsepower. Unlike DVR applications and other light tasks, games will bring a good PC to it's knees (especially iRacing). Can you post the specs of this machine?


Chris Considine
CXC Simulations

 

Thank you. Awesome. Two questions:

Is there a Mac-compatible high end (not a game) driving simulation software?

Could any "bad" driving habits be acquired through intensive use of this system?

 

I run rFactor and iRacing on my MacBook via XP on BootCamp with an external monitor.

I don't imagine you can develop any specific bad habits as a result of sim driving. If you would be prone to develop any bad habits, my hunch is that you'd develop them just the same, whether you're on sim or on track.

 

Ditto. As Chris says, the modern hardware, particularly in the GPU department, allows the current simulations to be presented in all their (almost) photorealistic glory.

Many of them work passably on my aging MBP with just a 256MB GPU on Boot Camp, but to the OP, no, there are no native to OS X simulations that are worthwhile.

+1,000

In spending quite a bit of time next to people on my rigs, I've been able to discern and repair many control input bad habits (pedal actuation rate and amplitude, steering wheel input speed and amplitude, steering wheel release rate) observed while on the simulator. Also, I've had experienced drivers observe my demonstrations on the rigs that have allowed them to alter their technique for a serious performance gain in real life. It's really cool...

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. The Mac may struggle a bit with iRacing, but if you turn down the details and graphics, you should be ok.

Chris Considine
CXC Simulations

 

I can appreciate how completely non-rhetorical your statement is.

I think it takes a real shift in belief systems to convince the non-believers to buy in.

 

That's the truth. iRacing doesn't like showing me "the tree" for Laguna Seca's corkscrew.

 

"iRacing doesn't like showing me "the tree" for Laguna Seca's corkscrew."


Funny, the telephone poles I used as reference points in Road Atlanta's Turn 5 on Peter's system don't appear on my Mac powered home system.

 

Which telephone poles? They're probably not showing up on Road Atlanta in iRacing either...

Honestly, I probably won't sim drive RA until next fall before my next race there.

 

Haha! For months, I couldn't figure out why the Villas at VIR would appear on some of the computers but not the others on my equipment roster (up to five now).

Then, I discovered that with a modest FPS hit, you can selectively crank up detail quite a bit. It's quite incredible the level of detail that iRacing (and others are) capable of.

Best thing ever was the ATI 5890 GPU upgrade...

If you buy a Core i5 or i7 27" iMac, I think the 4870 option will be plenty to show you the phone poles and even the PA speaker that is your reference for coming up the hill through Turn 2 at Road Atlanta.


Will, congrats on your Q2 over Charles! Awesome! I don't think you missed anything in the race except a fair bit of waterborne carnage...

 

I would love to know who their attorneys were/are. I have a really good friend who owns the patent on moving platform driving simulation for racing and instruction. Sony, NASCAR and others are and have been in gross violation of her patent for years. Every attorney we have approached has been too afraid of pissing off such big clients or potential clients that they have shied away from the case - even though a broad, fully awarded utility patent is involved. All but one in NY, that is and they wanted so much $ up front that they were cost prohibitive.

So as it is, my friend has basically all but given up on being acknowedged and compensated for their IP and fully awarded patent - which cost them huge $ and time to develop.

Cheers & C U @ d'Track!!
C

Chuck Hawks,
Pro-Driver, Coach, Instructor & Facilitator
DreamsFulfilled, LLC & rEvolution Performance Driving System ©

 

"Will, congrats on your Q2 over Charles! Awesome! I don't think you missed anything in the race except a fair bit of waterborne carnage... "


Thanks for your help, Peter, need to talk to you about VIR. I anticipated trouble with the rain, and it's not worth it to me. Rain musses my perm.

b-mak - the telephone poles are directly ahead of you in the distance in the infield as you approach the turn-in curbing at 5 - they're useful for adjusting the attitude of the car

 

Ah, thanks, Will. I will remember that for next time.

In real life, I found that touching the curbing at the turn-in for 5 would cause a bit of pull on the wheel. The exit of 5 is way too much fun!