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Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by smg2, Mar 15, 2010.

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  1. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #1 smg2, Mar 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Finally finished the latest fuel line setup for the CIS to EFI conversion. It's a clean & simple design with no modification needed to the manifolds or runners.
    316 stainless steel, pieces are silver brazed. Aluminum injector adapter fittings, on the QV's and later it uses an 'O' ring seal and internal 'C' clip like OEM.
    Injectors are refinished in a cross linked vinyl resin wrinkle finish paint, this is not the baked on VHT or Krylon stuff.


    Here's some pics.. the last one is the mock up and also shows the installed height.

    For those interested in this please contact Nick at Nicks Forza Ferrari. This setup is for the V8's but can easily be made for the 12's as well.

    Enjoy!
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  2. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

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    #2 eulk328, Mar 15, 2010
    Looks really nice Scott (although I'm scared to ask the price!).

    I assume it also fits the 328, is that correct?

    Is there a way to make it fit like the original (without the throttle body tube extension)? Perhaps some re-routing of the hard fuel lines?? I'm trying to figure out why... is the greater height of the electronic fuel injectors versus the CIS injectors?

    What EFI injectors fit this?


     
  3. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #3 smg2, Mar 16, 2010
    Fits, all the 3x8's
    Yes, the extension for the TB is needed because the injectors are taller than the CIS setup and also because the throttle cable is on the side vs the bottom of the earlier 2V motors.

    The injectors are std. Bosch, I have them custom milled for this application.

    Hope that helps
     
  4. Grahame

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    #4 Grahame, Mar 18, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Scott,

    Yes, this is similar to what I did with mine. I've posted other photos elsewhere/ earlier, but this photo shows the same sort of throttle body extension. Works like a charm.

    Cheers,

    Grahame
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  5. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

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    #5 eulk328, Mar 18, 2010
    Nice looking install Grahame. How did you go about lengthening the throttle cable?


     
  6. GTHill

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    #6 GTHill, Mar 18, 2010
    Probably consulted with a Toyota engineer. They are really good at making things go fast.

    GT
     
  7. jonesdds

    jonesdds Formula 3

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    #7 jonesdds, Mar 18, 2010
    Is this an irreversible process with regards to the manifold/injector recepticles?
     
  8. smg2

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    #8 smg2, Mar 18, 2010
    fully reversible if so desired with no disruption to the OEM arrangement. no milling, welding or drilling needed to install on the engine.

    I wanted to have a setup that was able to be installed with regards to those who may sell down the road or if the car needed to be returned to stock yrs down the road for 'museum' display without having to track down new parts or restore the modified originals.
     
  9. Grahame

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    #9 Grahame, Mar 19, 2010
    I think we just used a slightly longer cable and tjhen swaged the appropriate fittings on either end - no Toyota input, btw!
     
  10. Grahame

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    #10 Grahame, Mar 19, 2010
    Mine is a 328 motor in a 308gt4, so right from the start that is one big non-original issue. I didn't really bother about reversibility of the instal. Even on the engine per se, my EFI system is not fully reversible because to fit the 348 rails and injectors, we bored down the injector holes to fit the 348 injectors to an appropriate depth and we also fettled out the chamber inlets to enhance the spray patterns into the plenum. Whatever, I don't really want to go back anyway.
     
  11. luckydynes

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    #11 luckydynes, Mar 19, 2010
    That's really cool Scott. I like how you threaded the injectors. Thanks for sharing.


    cheers,

    Sean
     
  12. smg2

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    #12 smg2, Mar 19, 2010
    Thanks Sean, what would be considered the easy part -threaded injectors- is surprisingly the PITA, by hand is asking for trouble and in the lath it requires custom jaws to hold the body and solenoid so it doesn't turn and bust. you loose a few figuring out how.

    the next fun part is getting it all to fit in the same space! the one advantage to solid works :D

    talk soon..
     
  13. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    #13 Pizzaman Chris, Mar 19, 2010
    Nice little system Scott.

    Maybe have someone move this to the 308/328 section? I bet alot of those guys haven't seen this.
     
  14. 350HPMondial

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    #14 350HPMondial, Mar 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. Grahame

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    #15 Grahame, Mar 19, 2010
    Hi Edwardo,

    Interesting photo - is that a turbo installation?
     
  16. 350HPMondial

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    #16 350HPMondial, Mar 19, 2010
    Yes,

    Norwood did lots of turbos...

    Edwardo
     
  17. airdelroy

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    #17 airdelroy, Jun 16, 2011
    Has this been put into a complete kit? Something that provides ECU, engine sensors, fuel and air plumbing, etc. ?

    Also this says it works on all QVs, but I thought there was a difference between US and euro cars. This works for both?

    Id sure like to do something like this, but would rather have something ready to go without having to design alot of the system.

    thanks,
    Aaron
     
  18. smg2

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    #18 smg2, Jun 16, 2011
    If you're referring to the EFI, Yes it's a complete 'kit' available thru Nicks Forza Ferrari. The only thing you'd need to do is re-route the fuel lines to feed the new fuel rails and provide your own air filter. So far there is about half a dozen sets out there.
     
  19. davehelms

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    #19 davehelms, Jun 17, 2011
    VERY tastefully done Scott!
     
  20. fatbillybob

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    #20 fatbillybob, Jun 17, 2011
    Looks awesome! What do you do about cali smog? I'm sure you can pass the sniffer but are the smog monkeys ingnorant enough to pass you on the visual? What is the primary advantage of doing this? Nice project.
     
  21. ramosel

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    #21 ramosel, Jun 17, 2011
    Scott, This is definitely still on my radar. Do you or Nick have any pictures or solutions for the "provide your own air filter" on the kits already in the field?

    Rick
     
  22. jsa330

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    #22 jsa330, Jun 17, 2011
    On my radar as well.

    Did you do before and after dyno runs, and is the performance really appreciably better?
     
  23. smg2

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    #23 smg2, Jun 17, 2011
    Thanks Dave.
    It as all things started out as a simple project that spiraled into a fairly complex one. obtaining the SAE papers for fuel design and flow among other things only added to the complexity.

    Then there is the differences in the injector retainer between the 2V and 4V as well.
     
  24. smg2

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    #24 smg2, Jun 17, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2011
    Well it does come down to the ability of the smog place to notice what is factory or not, a majority are not familiar with the stock setup and would not notice the change. If you're asking do I have a CARB #? Nope, I have looked into that in the past and I'm not flush with a couple million dollars to bother with that process, besides that you'd need to have a CARB approved ECU system as well, there are none for aftermarket.

    primary advantage is better MPG and a more efficient combustion. The CIS injector spray fuel every time the internal pressure overcomes the spring, thus it is always pulsing fuel regardless of the event timing.
     
  25. smg2

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    #25 smg2, Jun 17, 2011
    There is a rebuild with the EFI that was on the dyno. Nick has the dyno info it may be on his site.
     
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