I think that for Dinos, like any other vintage "exotic" generalizing about prices is difficult, and you have to break it down. The $175-$200k area for an excellent example -- say a fairly recently restored car that is largely original and has below average mileage -- say in the 30-50k mile range would be "all the money" In fact, there's one such car for sale right now at $185k at Berlinetta. For cars in rougher shape, prices from the low to high 100s is probably the market. Once you get to the "rare" market, you're probably talking about a wealthy buyer who wants what he wants when he wants it. Since fully and properly restoring a car can cost $200,000 in parts and labor, plus the cost of the car, how do you set the bar? If I wanted a perfectly restored car right now, say for my new $30 million villa in Cap d'Antibes, I would have to find one, and then pay whatever was asked, or I would have to buy a restorable car and wait a couple of years for the shop to complete the job. Let's say I wanted a completely original car with perfect provenance and less than 15,000 miles on it, with flares and chairs, or another limited factory configuration. Where would I find that car, and how much would I have to pay for it? A few weeks ago Lily Safra paid over $100 million for a Giacometti statue which dealers expected to go for $20-30 million -- because she wanted it and having it meant more to her than the $70 to 80 million she would lose if she wanted to re-sell it right now (that's the definition of just having too much money!) So, when someone posts that they want a truly rare item -- whether a Dino or a bottle of wine or whatever -- in "original" condition, if they are one of those people for whom instant gratification means more than money (a wealthy person can always get more money -- more time is not readily available on the open market), then "price is no object." As an owner of something beautiful and rare -- say that low mileage original Dino, with which it would be incredibly painful to part -- but not with so much money that there is no price that could turn one's head, you may be tempted to ask what a buyer means by that phrase. A 10 or 20% premium to some theoretical market value is not "price no object." The meaning of that phrase is that the buyer will pay whatever it takes to get someone to sell them the object of their desire. As to "no Dino on Earth would go for over $225,000 right now" Last year, when things in the world were not exactly stable, I turned down what seemed like a real, unsolicited offer of significantly more than that for my car. My upstairs neighbor owns a warehouse full of vintage F-cars, and spends eight figures on paintings, none of which he can take out for a drive on a closed circuit on a sunny Spring afternoon. If he stopped me in the elevator and asked me to sell him my car and "price was no object" he might have the title in his hand by the end of the day, because I might decide a good Daytona is an acceptable alternative to a great Dino... or I might not! So, when Dbanks says money no object and does not respond to a message from someone who owns exactly what he is supposedly looking for, it becomes pretty clear that he is just a poser who enjoys watching us all respond to a chimera, or, in fact, money is very much an object, or he is willing to settle for less than "the best." What is the "correct" price for a documented F&C US Dino, completely original, 2 or 3 documented owners, records, tools, manuals, etc, with under 15,000 documented miles in perfect running condition? I certainly have no idea, and the only way to find out is for someone to try to buy one. Can msdesignltd produce such a car for $225k? Can there be more than a handful of cars that meet that description left?? These cars are works of art. Passion rules their prices at a certain level, not sanity. Why else would you spend the cost of a Harvard education to own a 6-cylinder Ferrari that some don't even consider a Ferrari?
I spoke with Mr. Banks on the phone the day after the original posting and after a lengthy discuccion where I provided evidence of said car being a factory F&C Dino he stated that it was not for him, but he would like to pass on my phone number to the principal. I agreed and have not heard a thing. Then again, people get busy.
As most here know, I'm pretty skeptical of all of the "Looking for a Dino, WTB a Dino, price is no object for the right car, I'm building a collection starting with $300,000 to $500,000 this year - $500,000 to $1 million next year, etc., etc." type of posts. Here are some infamous examples of poser threads on FCHAT (I have cherry picked the ones related to Dinos): http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176006 The above first appeared in the Vintage section of FCHAT. Check out, for serious chuckles, Bluestone’s posting # 7 in that thread. And then, there’s the thread that he started in the 206/246 section – http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175236&highlight=bluestone Oh, and then there’s 1317wholesale’s thread, which also apparently went absolutely nowhere: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179195&highlight=1317wholesale I am not a basher, just rather cynical about posts that start out as above. By contrast, here's another "Looking for a Dino" type of thread that started off OK, though somewhat shaky, then had a potential poser phase, and finally had a happy ending (after 2 years or something???): http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=165120&highlight=lotustt Now as synchro says, people sometimes get busy, so let’s see if there is at least some sort of news from Dan Banks in the next 60 days or so. Also, circumstances and desires can change, so there is nothing wrong with abandoning a quest for a Dino. In my case, I have been looking for another 246 for about 8 months, this time a 246gt, But, at least I looked at 6, driven 3, flown to California twice, and have had a couple of PPIs done. My search has not ended, but I feel I'm getting closer. Mark
God bless you. When I was looking to buy an extra Dino, I got so tired of the supposed "perfect" cars, the "all original" cars, the "unrestored" cars, the you name it. When a buyer gets serious, he starts looking seriously. I am not passing any judgement on the original poster, but if he is serious, he will start to take a serious look at what is available....or even better, start to look for and ask for what isn't being advertised or at least nationally. Not an easy thing to do, but when you want to open that door, you somehow find a way. The last two Dino's I bought weren't anywhere near being advertised, or really "FOR SALE" for that matter. I can't tell you how many similar cars I passed up because the timing/place/circumstance/whatever wasn't right. When I first started looking, I got VERY Discouraged VERY fast and flying and traveling quickly proved to be no better than a local car. To keep doing that, unless you happen to be in the area, wears on one VERY quickly. I bought two Dino's and a couple of other cars (including a Dino 196 s recreation) sight unseen and basically got what I paid for. A couple of minor descrepancies, but not anything that would have changed my mind. If a real buyer is looking to spend top level money, he should have already contacted the guys that deal with this type of product - well known and respected brokers who would find it for them. Playing the game by yourself leaves so many doors closed. Trust me, the brokers know how to find what anyone wants if price is no object....It's when price is an object and you want pay it that is the issue. No comment towards Mark in this post, and I have no idea what he is looking for..... My comments are more directed to the people that seem to post and then go MIA
Not true. Exceptional cars in the right configuration are not subject to the market - they make the market
I already have a great 246gts, and I'm now looking for a 246gt. I've PM'd you - assuming you've got a 246gt and that your posting was directed to me. If not, oh well! Mark
I agree wholeheartedly. The match between a specific car and its motivated buyer is not always the product of a logical decision. What is "just right" for a particular person at a specific point in time can neither be predicted nor explained. In fact, it doesn't require explanation. Fred
Hi Gents, To dispel more gossip and rumors... The car is not for me. I did not see that question. I am very busy and in fact, I have not checked Ferrari Chat in quite sometime. For the delayed response I am sorry. It was not my intent to bother those with tardiness. We have located a car and signed a contract. Contingent on an inspection of numbers, undercarriage and body panels we will purchase. Its a silver/red documented flares/chairs car. If the deals falls through, I will post back. Thanks, Dan PS- for those wondering about my company website, its running now. www.MBCgarage.com
I just viwed your website.. Where are you in Westchester.. As a prior owner of a 66 Corvette coupe w/390HP and a 67 conv, with 400HP air and side pipes 4 speed, plus a Flair and Chair Dino 08318, we have the same taste in cars!
Thanks for the kind words gents! I appreciate the emails showing support for the Ferrari search and best wishes for my restoration business. I find it particularly interesting that behinds scenes, in PM and email, members are very vocal in standing up to a select few who sit behind their computers bashing new members (myself included) but when it comes to self assertion on the public forum, the same group is a bit timid in showing self advocacy. Lastly, since MRONY sent me a PM, which I replied to as soon as I could, and yet he still posted here bashing me, I want to address the following... With that attitude, why would I ever entertain a car of yours? I do not care if you have the best or last Dino in the world. Life is too short to deal with people you cannot tolerate. You have proven not much more than immense arrogance. Dan
Aloha.....I watched the 206 GT go at Goodings in Scottsdale for $220k in 3 minutes flat...so much for no Dino going for $225k....mine is a better car than that one......... Gregg #00350 Hawaii
I do think the 206s, with their limited numbers, KO wheels, aluminum skin, would be more collectible in time. When I was looking for a Dino in 2005, a friend who works at the excellent Japanese magazine "Car" found a 206, sent me the 2 pictures shown below, among others, and said it was a "must buy." I wanted a 246 and passed this one up. I am not sure what happened to it, and perhaps our Japanese friends on this board can tell us. Also shown below is a page from Car, which features the Dino from time to time. I don't think this is the same car on sale in 2005. Very good cars can be found in the Japanese market. They seem to be qute expensive there, however. Andy Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I WOULD SAY IT SURE WAS A MUST BUY...WHAT A BEAUTY!! WHY WOULD YOU PREFER A 246 OVER A 206? THE 206'S ARE ALREADY MORE COLLECTABLE THAN 246'S. NO 246 GT WOULD HAVE BROUGHT $220K IN SCOTTSDALE....THE JAPANESE AND EUROPEANS PRIZE THEM MUCH MORE THE AMERICANS. JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION........ GREGG
At the time, it was little things. I liked the headrests, fuel filler flap, and the electric windows on the 246 - just personal preferences. I also wanted a very low-mileage, unrestored car, latest model I could get, preferably European specs. And I wanted a blue car. I was going to keep the car too, so eventual collector value was not high on the list. I was bit turned off by what seemed to me the bent shift lever on the 206. Do they all have that? So as with many things, the decision was based on inconsequential bits and pieces. I'm quite happy with the 246 I eventually bought, though. No regrets. Sorry for hi-jacking this thread. What I intended to say to Dan (Dbanks) though was "try Japan." Andy Image Unavailable, Please Login
Aloha....someone bent that shifter.......they should be straight like the 246's thanks for your reply.... Gregg
to bent the shifter makes sence, I can`t brake if the shifter of my 206 GT is in first gear... ;-) The 206 GT is much smaller than a 246 GT and for a driver taller than 1,80 m very difficult to handle... Regards Matthias
So, does anyone know whether this purchase was concluded? Has there been a silver/red F/C Dino sold in the last few months? We haven't heard from Dan for quite some time. . . . Mark
