Dreamteam Brawn/Haug/Schumacher not working?

It seems that the same thing that happened to Mclaren and Ferrari last year has happened to Mercedes this year. Wait for their update in Barca then judge if everything is working well or not.

 

+1 thank you for bringing the facts into play. Schuey and Brawn had to practially reinvent Ferrari and build a car for Schuey's driving style. For what they did for Ferrari, I thank them.

Don't get me started on Alonso or other fantastic drivers and how poor they perform some seasons, let alone how they would do after being off for 3 seasons. Naysayers can prove their validity once their respective driver(s) win 7 world titles.

 

point taken but as long as it remains a hypothetical it is unprovable. That doesn't mean that it can't be discussed to death though

 

Well that's part of my point in the OP: Will Mercedes actually build itself around MS and come up with a car that suits his style?

So far it does not look that way since they seem to give both drivers equal status. We heard that there is allegedly no data sharing and that Brawn does not talk to MS over the radio. That is not the MS centered approach taken at Benetton and Ferrari.

 

How long did it take them to beat their team-mates though?

In 2009 it took Hami the 2nd race (he would have beaten team-mate Heikki the first race in Australia but Hami was DSQ for misleading stewards) in Malaysia where he came in 7th and Heikki DNF because he spun off the track.

In 1996 it took Schumi until the 2nd race in Brazil to beat Irvine. Schumi was 3rd and Irvine was 7th. Schumi beat him by a lap.

I rest my case. This is not the Schumi of old. Not even close. When you can't beat your team-mate you have problems. I would expect a 7x WDC to beat a team-mate who has never won a WDC.

 

Really fabulous point. I was pondering this very issue last night. My personal conclusion is that Brawn will build the team around Michael's needs before Nico's. Michael has proven he is capable to still be very quick in a car not necessarily suited for his driving habits, while Nico is quick with a car he says he is very comfortable with. Michael's track record for such changes has in the past proven to be very effective and consistent. Don't think for a moment engineers and Michael alike are not communicating very effectively to Brawn and anyone else for that matter regarding the issues. According to Nico, several enhancements are being prepared to close the gap. I am sure other teams have various 'B' packages being prepared as well. Will just have to wait and see how effective they might be compared to others, and how much they further suit what Michael is doing.

 

IMO, Mercedes must take a realistic approach in their F1 effort. I think they will have to make up their mind by at least mid-season on which driver to focus their effort and future on, and that driver may be Roseberg and not their favorite son, Schumacher.

 

One of the great strengths of MS was to grasp a POS car by the neck and wring it to the podium. He learned driving around problems with the Saubers in endurance racing and carried that skill into F1 where he once finished a GP gloriously with a gear missing. The Schumacher of 2004 didn't need a perfect a car to win.

 

While you were pondering I was drinking Norton Reserve Malbec. The Spirit of Mendoza informed me that while Schumi represents the glorious past, Nico represents a potential WDC for years to come. And since we're not dealing with Italians but rational and emotionally stable (some would say cold) Germans, they couldn't possibly be stupid enough to forgo their future.

 

You guys ever watch 'Race of Champions'? I saw Schuey on it once, and he was quicker than everyone in every car he was stuck in, except for one. This was last year some time in the UK, IIRC.

Funny you mention '04. That year Ferrari is considered the fastest F1 car in history. Schuey still holds a few track records with that beast.

 

Neither does the Schumacher of 2010.

I'm surprised at how so many people are passing judgement after just 2 races. The man's been eating curry and smoking cigars for the last 3 years. His current pace is hardly a true representation of what he can do.

 

I saw one race where a Malaysian driver named Heikki Kovalainen beat him easily.

 

I think realistically the answer lies somewhere between. A relevant point about Hamilton in '09 and Schumi '96 is that both had been racing in previous seasons and their skills more honed. But I don't think it's realistic either to expect Michael to be the same as when he won his titles. The other thing is, he won't have the energy nor the interest in wrestling a mediocre team to the top the way he did starting with Ferrari in '96.

 

Let's compare Schumi to Rosberg:

Races: S 250, R 72
Poles: S 67 (26.8%), R 0 (0%)
Podiums: S 154 (61.6%), R 2 (2.78%)
Wins: S 91 (36.4%), R 0 (0%)
Points: 1300, R 95.5
Points per Race: S 5.2, R 1.32
Best Rank: S 1, R 5

How is it that Schumi can't beat this guy after two races in the same car? Rusty may be part of it. We know that reaction times degrade for everyone the older we get. 3 years is a long time at Schumi's age. Not a kid any more. He could probably beat everyone his age, but he is racing against kids in their prime.

Rosberg is 24 while Schumi is 41. Not a fair fight. At all.

 

Because you omit one statistic:

Age: S 41, R 25

 

Because Schumi has been out of the car for 3 years, not 3 months. Plus he's 41 years old, along with and injured neck. Like I said, I will make my judgement on Michael after 6 races.

 

i don't get the handwringing over Schumacher's performance to date. The guy may or may not have lost a step, but so far he's about a tenth off Rosberg after a 3 year vacation. Racing requires a pretty tough, persistent disposition and I can't imagine Mercedes is anything other than delighted to have Schumacher, his long experience and his current pace in their car. They'll keep working the problem, let's see where they are mid-season.

 

Tifosi12:

Great minds think alike. Fixed it. Our posts must have passed through cyberspace.

 

I don't think that the gap, or the "tenths", between Nico and Schumi are as significant per se as the fact that for everything Schumi has done in the Merc, Nico's been able to better it. Nico would be a fool to play his hand at the start of the season and I'm confident that he has been advised to beat his teammate first. But it is a long season.

 

An interesting thought and along the line of my OP: A far cry from a team built around MS where the #2 driver works solely for MS.

 

Bullschit in a basket there. The finest fighter pilots in the world fly into their 50s+. Look at the top gun academy instructors. They wipe the floor with the young guns going through there all day long.

 

Comparing apples and oranges. Very different skillsets. Or when was the last time you saw a fighter pilot dominate F1?

 

I would be tempted to say dogfighting fighter jet requires greater mental alacrity and physical conditioning then that of anything F1 has to offer. Ever black out at 8gs+?

 

Again. You are comparing apples and oranges. What makes a great fighter pilot is not the same that makes a great F1 pilot and vice versa. And no, I never went beyond 3.5 Gs.

 

+1.


Jeez- if I don't work out for a couple of months, It takes me weeks to get back in shape. When I don't kart for the winter- same thing- several races/practices to re-adapt from what ...just 4 months off ? And -I'm getting back into the same kart on the same tracks.

This guys been out of the sport for 3 years, in a new car, (that's changing race to race), with different rules and technology, and very limited practice. Yet he's finished both races in the points and is less than 1/4 of a second off the pace of his team mate , who's no slouch himself. I think he's doing fantastically.

I hope I'm never judged by some on here.... tough crowd!