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the lvferraripilot engine rebuild thread

Discussion in '308/328' started by Ferraripilot, Mar 29, 2010.

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  1. duck.co.za

    duck.co.za Formula 3

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    #51 duck.co.za, Apr 4, 2010
    John well done , you said you were going to get on it and you have for sure !! Interesting about the ports . If I remember correctly when Paul ( Artevonne ) flowed them , the misaligned manifolds flow more !!
     
  2. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #52 mk e, Apr 4, 2010
    That was a surprising result...and means something else is wrong somewhere.

    a buddy of mine was putting a plate in ports that blocked off the botton 1/3 of the port....and the plate would just end mid port and worked great. Before he was welding is all in then realized just getting the air started in the right direction worked just as well and saved a TON of work. The plate was good for something like 15% gain. The same guy also egged the hole in a manifold gasket to make the gasket misaligned and again effectively stop flow on the bottom of the port....5% gain on that engine.
     
  3. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    #53 Pizzaman Chris, Apr 4, 2010
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    I just dug up a picture of my plug to compare.

    Mine was covered with sludge. A mixture of syncro, metal debris, water and Gear oil. Yummy!
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  4. Ferraripilot

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    #54 Ferraripilot, Apr 4, 2010
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    I had an hour this afternoon to wrench on stuff. Boy did I get a ton accomplish. Let this go down as the *easiest* Ferrari head removal in history. I removed the 1-4 bank with zero drama. As in, unbolted and came right off. The cylinder head looks very good and the cylinders measure up very consistently so far at 3.187"-3.188" at all areas.


    The headgasket measured to .051. Deck height measured .052.

    I measured actual TDC with a dial indicator and found to the tee where TDC lies. Actual TDC markings on the flywheel areobviously not quite right. Below is a pic of exactly TDC which shows to be about +1 ATDC on the flywheel.
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  5. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

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    #55 Pizzaman Chris, Apr 4, 2010
    What did you use to get the heads off?
     
  6. Newman

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    #56 Newman, Apr 4, 2010
    Recheck TDC with a piston stop and a degree wheel not just a dial indicator, its the best way to find actual TDC otherwise there is room for error.
     
  7. Ferraripilot

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    #57 Ferraripilot, Apr 4, 2010

    I used absolutely nothing to get the heads off. I removed the nuts, took them out, and pulled the head off. No corrosion on the studs. Easy as pie. Don't hate me!

    Paul, I have neither of those at my disposal at the moment. Will check again once it comes time to degree the cams. Good call though.
     
  8. mk e

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    #58 mk e, Apr 4, 2010
    an indicator is fine....but just not looking for zero at the top. Pick say .050 then go back around the other way to .050 the TDC is inbetween, just like with a piston stop.
     
  9. gcmerak

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    #59 gcmerak, Apr 4, 2010
    Keep up the great work John. I'll be keeping up with your progress.

    Caio,
    George
     
  10. Ferraripilot

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    #60 Ferraripilot, Apr 5, 2010
    Couple side notes. The tensioner bearings had about 5k miles on them. Still felt very smooth while turning slowly, although they feel like they drag a bit too much due to thick grease inside? The belts showed signs of wear, but also looked very good.

    Heads will be off to the machine shop tomorrow. New Ferrea valves, guides, viton seals. The good stuff. 3 weeks though! There are other machine shops in town, but they haven't the gear to do the same level of job this guy is capable of. Besides, it will probably take me 3 weeks to have the rest of the crap good to go.
     
  11. Ferraripilot

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    #61 Ferraripilot, Apr 5, 2010
    Guess I should have mentioned the calculated static compression as 8.66:1 with the above figures. When hot, I would say it might expand enough go a taste over 8.7:1 but that's it IMO.
     
  12. Ferraripilot

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    #62 Ferraripilot, Apr 5, 2010
    Little bit of a concern I need to inquire about. As I stated before, the cylinders are all measuring about 3.187-3.188. The forged Borgo pistons I have measure at about 3.186. Should I be concerned about there not being enough clearance?
     
  13. Ferraripilot

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    #63 Ferraripilot, Apr 6, 2010
    Heads at the machine shop today. Good news is they should be done in a week. The machinist is performing a 'infinite radius cut' which I guess is better then 3 or 5 angle.
     
  14. mk e

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    #64 mk e, Apr 6, 2010
    i would want to know what it is before I let them cut it on my heads. A full radius seat flows well but is very bad for seat life and fuel atomization so you don't want that if that is what he's up to.
     
  15. Ferraripilot

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    #65 Ferraripilot, Apr 6, 2010
    Back from the machine shop. The machinist showed me the cutter he is going to use for the seat. The best way to describe it is that it is 4 angles with a radius thrown in there. Fancy looking, but I am a layperson when it comes to this stuff.
     
  16. mk e

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    #66 mk e, Apr 6, 2010
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    Thats good then.

    Here's a pic of the one I use, same deal
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  17. Ferraripilot

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    #67 Ferraripilot, Apr 6, 2010
    That's it Mark. exactly
     
  18. tifosi12

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    #68 tifosi12, Apr 6, 2010
    Good luck John!
     
  19. Ferraripilot

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    #69 Ferraripilot, Apr 6, 2010
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  20. Pizzaman Chris

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    #70 Pizzaman Chris, Apr 6, 2010
    Good things come in small packages. :)
     
  21. mk e

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    #71 mk e, Apr 6, 2010
    What are you measuring with? The bores should have been 3.189 when they were new.....I don't see how they could be 3.186 now unless they are out of round. Maybe pop them out and let your machinist have a look at them.
     
  22. Ferraripilot

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    #72 Ferraripilot, Apr 6, 2010
    I am measuring them with bore gauges in several areas of the bore so to have as accurate a reading as possible. I recall a thread not terribly long ago where someone experienced the same exact issue.
     
  23. Ferraripilot

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    #73 Ferraripilot, Apr 6, 2010
    For those waiting for me to have some sort of issue, I believe I have found that issue. Not a big deal, but the water pump housing studs have been soaking in penetrating oil for 3 days now and the unit stiff refuses to budge. The studs won't budge either. Going to have to get a adequate stud puller and get those studs out. Hopefully the threads won't come with them, but I am half expecting them too.
     
  24. Artvonne

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    #74 Artvonne, Apr 7, 2010
    Interesting thread. Your findings closely match what I have seen with my two engines and a few other people have seen simular. Flywheel timing marks off up to 3 degrees, both my engines had .064 inch head gasket thickness,simular deck heights, etc...

    As to the intake ports, I did find a loss in flow after port matching. Dropped from about 98 cfm down to about 94 IIRC.

    I need to get the rest of my stuff moved down here and get back to work with the flow bench. However, I am not in full agreement that the "indicated" loss in flow means what it says. There is some thinking out there that many other factors besides raw cfm airflow tests are at work that push or pull the numbers around making some of it just shooting in the dark. To the point, I believe its possible the numbers lie a little from actual results inside a running engine. But without further testing, I would just leave well enough alone for now. If the exhausts flow so much the engine is losing power, that may be the best first place to start, ie; finding an economical or reasonable way to choke them down.
     
  25. Ferraripilot

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    #75 Ferraripilot, Apr 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    water pump housing off. I managed to do it without ruining all the studs, only one. The threads in the block itself were all unharmed. The lower left stud was the most problematic. I heated and cooled the housing 4-5 times. Each cycle gave me a tiny bit more progress. All in all, a violent process :)

    I placed all the emissions garbage in a box and weighed it. This stuff weighs more then I thought at 27lbs. There are still a few studs here and there I haven't weighed but we have general idea where this stuff is at now.
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