Need Help - no start problem | FerrariChat

Need Help - no start problem

Discussion in '308/328' started by Dark side of the moon, Apr 9, 2010.

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  1. Dark side of the moon

    Apr 5, 2010
    15
    Toronto Canada
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    I have not had my Ferrari very long but I have noticed an intermittent problem with starting, below is the troubleshooting I have performed so far.

    I noticed is that when it is cold outside the starter does not engage. After a good five minutes or so of trying the ignition it will then engage and turnover the engine, the car starts immediately. When it is warm outside the starter engages immediately and starts the first time. Below is the troubleshooting I have performed so far to no avail:

    1) I keep the battery hooked up to a trickle charger all the time.
    2) Took off the starter had it checked out, worked fine, brushes replaced anyway.
    3) Connected starter case with a jumper cable directly to negative terminal of battery
    4) Removed ignition switch, cleaned with contact cleaner.
    5) Traced wiring to Starter Relay, tested seems to work fine, added a new ground connection to the relay anyway.
    6) If I put the ignition switch to the run position (not start position) apply 12 VDC directly to the solenoid on the starter, the starter engages and the engine starts right away.
    However, the automatic valeo clutch does not engage when the shift lever is put into any gear and car does not move. If I start the car normally, the clutch works fine and I can drive the car.

    I have some wiring diagrams, part of the Mondial manual and it shows a Starter Inhibit Relay connected to the Starter Relay and the Ignition switch. The Starter Inhibit Relay also has a connection to the Valeo ECU. I would think that the Valeo ECU would prevent the engine from starting if in gear and I suppose this is the purpose of the Starter Inhibit Relay. I have not been able to find the location of this relay to test it out. Does anyone know where the starter inhibit relay is physically located on the car? What ever the problem is, it is intemittent and temperature related.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
    1,555
    NY/SC
    Full Name:
    David
    Check integrity of the ignition switch wire connections, back of the switch? My 328 had a similar sounding intermittent issue last year and I was about to install the helper relay when we discovered it was simply a spotty connection.
     
  3. trendsetterx

    trendsetterx Karting

    May 15, 2007
    69
    Deep south Texas
    Full Name:
    Raul Marquez
    #3 trendsetterx, Apr 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I would check all the connection on the battery first and on the fuse box. I had a similar problem with a nonstart when cold on my Mondial and it was the two littlie red wires that connect from the battery to the fuse box. All the connections were very clean and it appeared to be making good contact. I changed the connection tips from the battery ends and that fixed my problem. I have the Mondial 3.2 not the Valeo and on my Mondial those wires give power to most of the fuse box if not all.
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  4. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,793
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    It's possible that part of your problem is that you're using "trickle charger" instead of the Battery Tender.
     
  5. Dark side of the moon

    Apr 5, 2010
    15
    Toronto Canada
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    Thanks for the suggestions, ducowti, trendsetterx and miketuason.
    Unfortuantely I think this intermittent problem is a bit more obscure.

    I have been able to bypass the ignition switch, the starter relay and the inhibit relay by applying power from the battery directly to the starter solenoid. When I do this the starter engages and the engine starts right away. The only problem is that when I put it in gear the automatic clutch does not engage. I have tried this many times and each time the clutch does not engage. If outside warm and I start the car normally the clutch works and I can drive the car. So even if it was a poor connection at the battery or ignition switch preventing the starter from engaging, I do not know what is preventing the clutch from engaging once the car is started when the ignition switch, starter relay and starter inhibit relay is bypassed.
     
  6. Dark side of the moon

    Apr 5, 2010
    15
    Toronto Canada
    Full Name:
    Dennis
    Well it's been over two months and many hundred hours of troubleshooting the entire starter system from the ignition switch to the starter and everything in between.

    I took all the components out one by one, checked the operation individually and cleaned out all the contacts. They all seemed OK and when I put them back I had the same problem, sometimes the starter would not turn over when cold, but sometimes it would and the car would start normally.

    I read one post where someone recommended a product called Stabilant 22. It sounded like snake oil to me because it claims to cure all electrical issues. They claim that "Stabilant 22 is a liquid polymer that only becomes conductive between mating surfaces of contacts when there is an electric field applied and remains non-conductive to adjacent contacts."
    They also said that only a very very small amount is needed on connectors, which didn't seem right to me. The liquid is very expensive 15 ml (0.5 ounce) of the diluted stuff is $50 plus shipping, which was another reason I did not want to try it.

    But in a final act of desperation I bought some and applied it to a few connectors and magically the car starts first time every time so far. Since these cars are known for their electrical gremlins, I plan on applying this stuff to every connector I can find on the car.
     
  7. Falcon

    Falcon Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2008
    1,304
    New England Region
    Full Name:
    Falcon
    I had a similar problem. Turned out it was the alarm system. You don't mention one but if your car has a security system you may want to remove it. I also noticed you don't mention checking the ground straps. If you're by-passing everything and the car is starting you may be creating a good ground in the process. A bad or weak ground can be lost in low temps. Don't forget the negative terminal of the battery. There is a tendency to focus on the power side but the ground is of equal importance.
     
  8. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,345
    Stabilant 22 is great for connectors and yes it only takes a whiff to improve a connection. I would never use it on any arc contacts such as relays but it's great on connectors especially if they are on low current circuits.

    Were I you, I would run a long wire from the starter to a test light in the cab soas to know for certain there was voltage at the starter (not just the starter solenoid) when it failed to fire. Starters can have issues whereby the motors 'bind'. The tolerances on some are subject to temperature causing parts to expand and prevent turning.
     

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