pit bulls...have we mentioned them?

I'd love to see the polls in the last 10 yrs. which dog had the most attacks. I think it will be a landslide with pitbulls on top.

 

I really don't know. All I know is that the ones I've met have been fine. I'm only nervous about one kind of dog and that is English sheepdogs since I've been bitten by two of them, one quite severely. In any event, I think it comes down to the fact that pits require a special kind of owner but sadly many of them are in the hands of idiots and that is where the trouble starts.

 

Quick Google search came up with this place to start: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html#Thedogsmostlikelytobite

I agree that to some degree the "pit bull" angle gets played up but there seems to be no doubt that the breed has natural tendencies to attack, just as a Greyhound likes to run. But in both examples the tendency gets exaggerated by unnatural selection, i.e. breeding controlled by humans.

In my local paper this morning: Two pit bulls attack girl

 

Amen to that brother

 

I own a 18 month old German Shepherd and just a few months ago I was happily walking my dog down the road on a leash. One of the houses on the road has a white, disgusting looking pitbull that always goes ape **** whenever someone walks past the house.

On this particular day, the dog for some reason was not in the fenced in area (must have gotten out) and immediately started running at me and my dog. Luckily, there was a lifted truck on the side of the road which I jumped into carrying the dog. But let me tell you, it could have ended 10x worse. My shepherd obviously went into protect mode and started going crazy at it, to the point that I had to sit down and hold him back. Had that truck not been there, there's a good chance that both me and my dog would have been hurt.

I really hate the breed, I wish they would just ban them all. Everyone who owns one seems to have their pants half way down their legs and acts like they're packing heat.

 

I usually try not to comment too much on this subject but I have been following this thread since it started and need to get some things off my chest. This is not meant to start a fight, I am not expecting to change anybody's mind. I merely want to offer some thoughts on what I feel is a misunderstood topic:

1) "Pit bull" is not a breed, it is a dog type. The most common dogs referred to as "pit bulls" are American Pit Bull Terriers (APBT), American Staffordshire Terriers (AmStaff), and Staffordshire Bull Terriers (SBT). Many other dogs (Cane Corso, Presa Canario, Mastiffs, Boxers etc) are cited as being "pit bulls" when they are mentioned by the media which is entirely false. If you have ever dealt with the media then you know how much they twist and manipulate information to make a story more interesting (sensationalizing it). Media regarding any controversial topic (environment, politics, "pit bulls") should be digested with a healthy dose of skepticism. Also note that stats can be manipulated to represent nearly any desired outcome and correlation does not imply causation.

2) A true APBT or Amstaff should be 35-60 lbs and well proportioned, it should not be 120-150lbs with a head like a basketball. These dogs have been bred with mastiffs and other types to make them larger. They are not and should not be referred to as "pit bulls" though they often are.

3) "Pit bulls" do not have locking jaws nor do they have super-animal strength. A "pit bull's" basic anatomy is much the same as many other medium-sized dogs and their bite strength is similar (not much more, not much less) to many popular breeds (Labs, Retrievers, German Shepherds).

4) APBT/Amstaff/SBT are intelligent and energetic dogs. If their physical and mental needs are not met then this can manifest in behavorial issues (ie - barking, chewing, digging, aggression). The same is true for any breed. Being tied to a chain as a guard dog or left in a backyard without proper stimulation will not meet the dogs needs.

5) While they can be naturally animal-aggressive (just like many other terriers) they were bred NOT to be human-aggressive and if raised properly make poor guard dogs due to their affinity for people. Animal-aggression can often be limited by early and frequent socialization when the dog is young. Socialization while young is key for every dog.

6) In the early to mid-1900's "pit bulls" were some of the most popular breeds of dogs in the US and were often referred to as "nanny dogs" because of the way they were with children (Petey from the Little Rascals is a pit bull type dog for example). Please note that leaving a child unsupervised with ANY dog is a huge act of stupidity and completely reckless.

7) People have strong feelings toward this breed and I am not trying to change anyone's mind. My experience with my dog (1 yr old AmStaff, weighs 45 lbs and is smaller than nearly every Golden Retriever I have seen and regulary gets her butt kicked by a 15lb Boston Terrier at the park) and any others that I have met at dog parks has been very positive although I recognize that these dogs are not for everyone. Interestingly, the people who most often compliment my dog look to be the same types of people that give these dogs bad reputations and think of the dog as a fashion accessory or status symbol rather than what she is; a great companion.

I'm not sure which breed you are referring to (APBT/AmStaff/SBT) so I will assume you mean all three but many people feel the same way about your beloved German Shepherd. I know of several people who have had bad experiences with German Shepherds and would make similar comments. Breed Specific Legislation (BSL) against "pit bulls" sets a precedent for legislators to take your dog away from you or prevent you from owning another one in the future. When the streets are cleaned of "pit bulls" what types of dogs are the "bad guys" going to go for next? Likely German Shepherds/Dobermans/Rottweillers etc and the pattern will repeat itself with the only difference being that YOU may be the one trying to defend your dog. Personally, I quite like German Shepherds et al and would hate to see that happen.

PS - Anybody who thinks the story of 16(!) y.o. who "slept" through the mauling of her infant isn't more than a little fishy is as ignorant as can be. My dog can't roll over in the middle of the night (in another room) without her jangling tags waking me up and this girl couldn't hear her child being attacked when she was sleeping right next to it?? My guess is that "mom" was either a) Drunk b) High/Stoned c) Both. This individual is clearly not responsible enough to own a house plant let alone a dog or being a parent. This story is much bigger than a "pit bull" problem.

 

Superb post. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots out there who have made up their minds and they ain't gonna change it because someone reasons with them intelligently. I wish there was a ban against such oxygen thieves!

 

It may have changed, but it used to be golden retrievers, which is understandable considering it is the most popular breed. Adjusted for percentages, it could be different. I still wouldn't put much stock on statistics though. My neighbor was bitten by a chow chow but the owner pleaded with him not to report it and he didn't. I was bitten by another neighbor's black lab while it was attacking my Sheltie and I was protecting it. I knew that it was a good dog, so I didn't report the attack either. I bet this happens very often.

 

The same stuff, in approximately the same size and with the same level of musculature, that can be found in the skulls of any other similarly sized breed.

 

If you study comparative anatomy... you can see the structure of the skull is very specialized for the task that these dogs were bred for. Hundreds of years of selective breeding produced a skull structure for a very specific job (before they became a fashion accessory for the MTV thug lifestyle).

Throughout history, domestic dogs exist only because of selectively breeding by man for very unique and different jobs. The problem is when you take a dog engineered to fight bulls and live on a farm, are introduce them to neighborhoods where innocent children are present.
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Nearly all terriers and many other breeds (hounds) have been engineered to hunt a variety of animals and are often named after their respective prey (Rat Terrier, Fox Terrier, Deer Hound etc) and a good number of breeds that are considered family-friendly were originally bred to guard things (ie- be wary of people and be aloof or agressive towards strangers). I'll say it again, historically "pit bulls" were bred to be animal-aggressive (like most other working dogs) but not human-aggressive. Furthermore, these days legitimate breeders breed for show, agility, and obedience. Any individual who breeds for aggression or fights and treats animals the way that dog fighters do should be treated in the same manner as a murderer IMO because that's exactly what they are.

Again, I don't expect to change anyone's mind... Just trying to give people food for thought that you won't hear from common sources of information that are deemed to be truth (media) by people that don't have first hand experience with the breed(s). A negative encounter with one or even two examples of the breed is not representative of the breed, it is representative of those individuals. I also understand that if that is your only interaction with the breed then you are inclined to have negative feelings towards them.

Attached are pictures of an Airedale Terrier's skull and a St Bernard's skull, neither looks a whole lot different or any less intimidating than the "pit bull" skull posted previously IMO.
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Would the owners please explain to me, and others....why in the world would you want to own a pitbull? Why, what logical reason would there be to own one?

I know a few owners and yes the dogs are nice, even playful..........so far. But when I'm at a BBQ or camping with my family (wife, 2 and a 4yr old) and one of these owners brings their dog to visit. I can't help but start to feel uneasy and take a quick scan around the campsite for the nearest axe....yes harsh, but true. I can also see it in others eyes.

Whether the above scenario or any other time a pitbull has been intruduced to a group of people. The 1st thing the owner does after 3 or 4 people asking "is that a pitbull" is start defending himself and the dog. "Oh he's nice, wouldn't hurt a fly, he's been a great pet, don't worry about him" EVERY SINGLE TIME, the owner does this.

Which brings me to my original question....WTF is your reason for owing one?? I would love to see pictures of all the guys that own these pitbulls. I would venture to guess that at least 80% would fit under the same profile, (age, body type, sex, even the way they dress and what vehicles they own) which I do not need to state, cuz we all know what that is.

I love dogs, all animals for that matter. However the 1st thought that enters my mind when I meet or see someone who owns a pitbull is........"I already don't like you and yeah, you're probably an a**hole" Not a fair stereotype, but it's a fact!!

 

Do the owners realize they cause stress to everyone's lives who live near them?
We had 4 young mothers in my neighborhood with babies. They use to walk around together and push their strollers. One person in our neighborhood bought a pit bull and the moms didn't feel safe walking with their children outside. We also have 3 neighbors who use to walk with us... we have small dogs. We no longer felt safe walking in our own neighborhood. Lucky for everyone....the dog got out of its yard twice, and on the second escape it was never found. The 50 homeowners in my neighborhood are slowly returning to normal life.

One person caused all that stress.... for what? I wouldn't want the liability hanging around my neck!

 

What logical reason do people have for driving ferraris? What logical reason does a person have for owning any dog? Very few people actually use dogs in the way that they were originally bred for, so why own one? I chose my dog because I wanted a medium sized dog (45lbs and about the same dimensions as an average border collie) that was smart, athletic, short-haired (shedding-wise they only have a top coat), and loyal. I wanted a dog that is able to go hiking and 4x4ing in the mountains, running/rollerblading as well as being happy just chilling out at home. AmStaffs aren't the only breed that meet those requirements but I am lucky enough to live in a country that lets me choose (for now). The fact that you don't "get it" doesn't bother me, I am fairly main stream and conservative when it comes to most things in life but that doesn't mean I feel the need to live other people's ideals.

I have been asked "is that a pitbull?" question and my reply is that she is an AmStaff. More than a few responses have been "Oh, well she looks like a pit bull but she's too nice to actually be one". I usually just smile and continue what I'm doing. Ignorance is bliss after all.

My name is also Jeff and I am also from Canada. I don't have a picture of me available right now so I'll tell you a bit about myself. I'm 24 y.o. and last year I graduated from the University of Alberta with a degree in Petroleum Engineering. I currently work at a large oil company in Calgary as a Facilities Engineer. My girlfriend also went to the U of A and is working at a non-profit organization as an event planner, she puts on events in Calgary to raise money for diabetes research. I don't where baggy clothes, I only have one tattoo (a maple leaf) and I drive a modified Toyota FJC that I take to places like Moab, UT and Ouray, CO to 4x4. I also like long walks on the beach at sunset. And if I see you while I'm out walking my dog, I'll be sure to look you in the eye, smile and say hello. Just like I do to everyone else If that makes me an a**hole then so be it.

I have tried to avoid personal anecdotes because I don't feel they are evidence of anything. I have tried to post objective information rather than subjective stories to further the discussion and I don't believe I have said anything inflamatory but make no mistake I am passionate about the subject, as obviously many others are. The fact is that they are simply dogs, they are not evil, they do not have hidden agendas and if treated with respect and kindness they are beyond loyal. There are very few people in my life that I would say the same things about.

 

Thanks for your reply. Its good to hear from an owner.

The quote above reminds me of the guy in my neighborhood who told me his dog was very loyal to him and his kids. The problem was, that it was only loyal to his family, but a source of great concern to the other 49 families who live in our neighborhood. (We knew his dog would get out... he had 3 young kids and they weren't old enough to always make sure the gate or door was closed and locked)

 

Well said Jeff and I appreciate the reply.

I'm not saying you ARE an a**hole, or everyone that owns a pitbull is one. To me it's no different some guy that pulls into a full parking lot, parks diagonal and takes up 2 spots....he's a**hole

No, there is no logical reason for owing a Ferrari or living in a 5000 sq foot home, it's just that people want to. But that is hardly comparible to owing a pitbull. There are other dogs just a capable of the type activities that you enjoy doing.

To me it would bother me to know that when I'm hiking, rollerblading, 4x4ing that anyone that I encounter is scared of the dog that I happen to be with......that doesn't bother you at all?? No different than walking down a busy street on a Saturday night holding an uzi.

It's the feeling of entitilement and power that you enjoy...........whether you realize it or not.

 

I don't specifically have any pitbulls in my neighborhood. I was remembering two speperate occasions last summer, 1 while camping and 1 while spending time at a park. Where a friend of a friend (different people) showed up with their pitbull. Instantly people felt uneasy. Parents looking around for their kids, and IIRC 2 families actually got up and left. They came back when the dog was gone.

Both of the owners and their dogs are very nice but that fact is, if any other dog was involved, it would have been a non issue.

 

Without getting into a drawn out story... Our dog knows when we buzz someone into the building because there is a distinctive noise that the phone makes that she can hear. When she hears that noise she runs to the door with her tail wagging in anticipation of our visitors. She makes people smile where ever she goes, and that's what makes me laugh when people say stuff like "she kinda looks like a pit bull but is too friendly to be one" or "she's pretty nice for a pit bull". THIS IS THE WAY THESE DOGS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!!! You won't hear that on the news or talking to people on the street but if you talk to responsible breeders, owners and dog professionals this is likely what they will tell you. I did a lot of research prior to getting my dog, including a 45min phone interview with a breeder so she could determine if the dog was right for me. This is probably hearsay to you but I can't have you meet the dog so it's as good as it'll get.

IMO, you and your neighbours should have the same concerns you outlined above regardless of the dog's breed. You can talk to your neighbour about your concerns in a constructive manner and if they are a reasonable person they will at least listen and understand where you are coming from. What was the outcome of this situation?

 

I agree people who park like that are a**holes. I once left a note on the windshield of a 550 Maranello that said something similar.

I think my comparison is very valid. Like I said, there are other breeds that would fill my criteria yet I chose an AmStaff. The max speed limit in Canada is 110 km/h, you don't need a Ferrari to reach those speeds; a Corolla will get you from A to B in the same amount of time as the F car... unless you're breaking the law and endangering yourself and others. Furthermore, a Ferrari or any car for that matter in the hands of an irresponsible driver can be lethal. In the hands of a responsible individual, not so much. No different than any dog.

I have no control over what people think when they see me walking down the street. I can however change their perceptions with my actions. My dog has actually been a good conversation starter at dog parks and I have met some cool people because of her. If you truely believe walking a dog is analogous to walking down the street carrying a prohibited firearm then I don't know what to tell you. I suspect in reality your reaction to my dog and an uzi would be slightly different.

I think this is more of a projection of how you feel about the breed than I do. You have an image in your mind of what I should look like (tough guy) and how I should feel (like a bad a**) when walking my dog. You'll have to take my word for it but nothing could be farther from the truth. My dog has a pink collar with little Breast Cancer ribbons on it and a blue argyle leash (I draw the line at a pink collar ) The enjoyment I get from walking my dog is spending time outdoors, looking at some fancy houses (Mount Royal in Calgary), seeing the occasional nice car and window shopping (17th Ave in Calgary) all while getting some exercise. Power or entitlement are not part of that equation.

I'm glad that this thread has become less hysterical ("Kill 'em All" "Dead like fried chicken" etc) and more civilized. I am happy to talk to people about my dog as long as they are reasonable and at least somewhat open-minded.

 

The reactions of the people of left the group were based on preconceived notions, not on facts. The facts are as you said, that the dogs and their owners are very nice. It should have been a non issue. The dogs did nothing wrong and I take it from your post that they didn't demonstrate that they would do anything wrong. The people who left just didn't like them because of the way they looked. I don't really know how to prevent that but what opportunity do I have to make you more comfortable if you are not open-minded or are unreasonable about it?

 

BrassM3, excellent posts so far. I have been reading with interest here, but not posting anything as of yet because i do not want to get into a heated argument over it. Just wanted to let you know that your initial post was spot on, and you have followed that up with more excellence. Kudos!

Just as food for thought, everyone try this for some interesting reading...

http://fortheloveofthedogblog.com/news-updates/the-most-aggressive-dog-breeds-dachshund-1

 

Yes I agree, I wish all owners were like that, but unfortunately..............