Great and well reasoned post, but trying to bring logic to an MS-bashing party is like showing up at the vegan party with a pot roast... it may be awesome, but they're not going to want to hear about it.
I'm thick skinned and like pot roast so ...more for me- Sounds like a good time! I know this discussion is going further down hill with Merc going back to the short wheel base for Monaco. If Nico does better than MS, the haters will say "see!!!" . I'm curious to see what they'll say if MS comes out on top despite reverting back to the old setup.
Vivek - I agree he is good - having one win and one second. But Hamilton is something special there - I just love his aggression - attacking the cones and scraping the walls. Hate to say it but AT Monaco, Hamilton reminds me of Senna. Shoot me for saying that! Vettel was off form and tentative last year. Wonder if he will be better this year. I just hope Ferrari will do better there. I don't have any hope for Felipe - he seems to have lost a bit of his speed Wonder how the Kaiser will do? His last win must have been a decade back - seems so far back that I've forgotten it.
Er, wrong Webber was looking like winning at Monaco in a Williams when the engine expired. Why would McLaren dominate Monaco when it is slow in the corners? ... last time I looked Monaco had lots of them. I'm actually expecting MS to do well at Monaco, and JB and hopefully Webber. If Webber leads into the first corner we have a winner, same with JB. So you read rumours or driver comments (they always say what they want us to hear, not necessarily the truth) and I posted facts (exact times behind the winners) and you think I'm way off. FACTS are FACTS. Heck sorry BS stops when the flag drops and the Merc has gone from being a competitive car only a few seconds behind the winner (yes I admit rain played it's part) to being over 40 seconds behind the winner. That is going backwards. There is no way the new car is better, no way. Or atleast we have no way of proving facturally that the new car is better as we do not have enough data, but based on the only thing we have available, race completion times, the car went further backwards compared to the others. Maybe if they had made the same aero improvements to the shorter wheelbase car they wouldn't have gone so far backwards ... who knows. I'm not bashing MS, I'm stating facts. Times have changed since MS was competitive, and this means car technology has moved on. It is possible that what MS used to think was fast now is not, and building a long wheelbase car to suit his driving style might not be a good idea. Time will tell. Pete
The only fact you posted was that Rosberg was 4th in the WDC standings. The rest was mostly supposition with a healthy dose of poop mixed in!
Incorrect. I researched the time gap Nico or MS finished behind the winner for each race. They are 100% correct from www.f1-live.com. Pete
while the gaps may be correct...they do not then render your conculsions factual. Are you espousing that gaps are directly proportional only to the car, or just car and driver? Or, that there aren't any other factors, completely unrelated to car or driver, that could explain non-linear gaps? There are so many variables, that gaps alone tell us very little. I have to believe you know that. Niether MS, nor Nico, nor brawn, nor Huag is blowing the "sunshine" the fans "want to hear". They said at the beginning of the season that they didn't expect to be front runners straight away.... that has turned out to be factual. They've been realistic and tempered all along- even now saying their step forward has been eclipsed by others. Yes- that is a relative step backwards to some- but certainly not indicative that the car is worse than before- which I understood to be your initial discussion desires. Rosberg and Schumi have had essentially the same stance. There is no face to save, only work towards improving their car and the team... just like everyone else on the grid. I have no reason to doubt them and, nothing you've presented is especially compelling in support of sabotage, favoritism, backwards development or saving face for MS. Facts are facts. The conclusions drawn from the facts amount to opinion and like me- you have one. I would submit that your opinion seems to be more based on rumor or false logic than mine- but your entitled to it.
Hmmm, Nico backs me up: As I said they have modified the car to suit MS, and yet Nico was 4th in the WDC and doing well. Now Nico does not like the car ... Like it or not, until this race Nico has been faster than MS, and in the races finishing a lot closer to the winning car. With this change Mercedes have caused Nico to go backwards big time and MS has improved in position and qualifying but his race time is way down on where Nico was finishing. Infact if you compare to Bahrain (which was a dry race) MS finished 44 seconds behind Alonso, now he is only 40 seconds behind the winner (Webber). Basically no difference. Opinion warning : Unfortunately the team appear to be lost and a promising young talent has had his preference ignored by somebody (Brawn) who is still idlising somebody who (again) like it or not is not performing as we all expect him to. MS and Mercedes should have used this whole year as a testing session to get MS back up to speed since no or little testing is allowed, and supported Nico and get valuable championship points that do affect next years budget. Pete
I guess you take away what you like. I read that article and many others and read it quite differently than your projecting. All of Nico's and MS quotes support what I've been saying- there is no conspiracy and they didn't give up a competitive car... they attemped to improve upon it. Nico and MS had similar wants... its not like MS wanted this and Nico was saying "NO- I can win with the old car". Sure- Nico's not happy with his last qualifying- MS wasn't happy in China but either way- the team made planned changes to address desires of both drivers. It worked out better for MS but even he's not completely satisfied, just convinced their moving in the right direction. Also don't forget, Brawn stated that the wheel base change was not reactive to MS or Nico, but a progression that had been planned since the start of the season. And, MS has said that his old chassis was not responding to changes predictably for reasons they didn't understand, and may have been related to damage. All in all- your premise that the old car was competitive in Nico's hands, or inferance that the change was brought about for MS to Nico's detriment is not supported by yours or any other article I've read.
As you say: I guess you take away what you like . I read what they said, ie. the car's weight distribution was modified to hopefully suit Schumacher's driving style. Pete
it just doesn't make sense to favour anyone but the fastest driver. i'd love to be a fly on the wall.
That bolded line you reference was the authors statement- not a quote from either driver... (see the absence of ""quotes ""???). Why your more willing to latch on to 2nd hand opinion over Brawns 1st hand statements that the wheel base change was a planned progression since day 1 - is telling. But please try to understand what I'm saying - I absolutely believe the team favors MS's opinion. I've not diagreed with that and stated as much several posts back. What I don't beleive, and what you fail to support, is your inuendo that the team is somehow trying to elevate MS by knocking Nico down. That they are somehow intentionally making changes that Nico doesn't want to further MS. That the old car (in and of itself) was a winner in Nico's hands and they chose to change it just for MS. That's not supported anywhere that I've found and your post doesn't support it either.
Actually, he doesn't... "We drive exactly the same way me and Michael, so it is not that you can build something that suits him better than me," said Rosberg in Monaco. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83555
Just because MS beats Nico in a modified car for the first time, suddenly the whole team is backing MS. If Nico feels uncomfortable with the new car, he should just go back with the old car then. Even Rubens was struggling with the upgraded Williams.
I simply believe that they are favouring MS with their car design. Redistributing the weight in the car to suit MS is an example, nobody has mentioned if Nico supported this change. Anyway I think we have done this to death and the fact is that compared to the rest of the competitive cars they have made absolutely no progress other than MS is now more happy with his cars balance, but just as slow. Pete
I'm not at all surprised to see Nico back faster than MS at Monaco now they have reverted to the car Nico prefers (whether he says that or not, the results prove he does). I must admit I did expect MS to out perform Nico at Monaco. Of any track this was going to be the one ... I really feel it is all over for MS if Nico out qualifies him by a sizeable amount. Pete
Both will be quite good as suposedly this car is more set up for Monaco than any other track (?). The margin in time so far is inconsequential. The guy who put together a better lap will be quicker; as in I dont think their qualy positions would indicate who is the better driver. It will indicate who got it together for that one lap that one day. Unless its a significant gap. While Nico was bombing around MS kept looking for that perfect brake set up after the tunnel. Which to me means MS is comfortable with the car and is in fine tune mode.
Trying to figure out how Rosberg is saying he was faster than Schu in Turkey. Math is a funny thing. Schu was faster 34 of the 58 laps and Nico was never close enough to try and make a pass. What's the deal.
I read that too. MS fastest lap was 1:29.81, NR 's was 1:29.977. I think race pace was quite misleading as many teams were in fuel management mode toward the end. I think this is why Vettel got such a good run on Webber and why Button got ahead of Hamilton. There were quite a few guys turning lap times only good enough to keep position. In all out terms- I believe MS was legitimatley more than a tenth quicker than Rosberg. Thiis stayed true all the way from practice to qualifying to the race... it probably just "seemed" like he was faster in the race because MS was not pushing @ 100% purposely.
I think you are right with that. It wasn't until lap 35 that Nico had two laps in a row where he was faster. The real kicker is that Rosberg *loves* this track and is very good there while Schu is not his best at this track. Matter of fact, that was the first time ever that he out qualified his teammate at this track.
Rosberg got a "funny" set for qualifying, which cost him the necessary time to be in front. During the race they were driving right behind each other. You can read that as not being able to make a pass or not being allowed to make a pass. Your choice.
