Actually, they tied on points. Additionally, we are in 2010, not 2007 in case you didn't know. F1 is about "what have you done for me lately." Hamilton, in what is generally regarded as the faster car between McLaren and Ferrari has been trounced by Alonso this year. To counter my point with the Barrichello argument is pathetic considering that the Brawn was leagues above the Renault last year. This year, McLaren, according to most, is faster than the Ferrari. To say that Hamilton is faster because of what he did 3 years ago (tied Alonso, not beat) is beyond ridiculous. I would stop while you're behind... Additionally, by your reasoning, I guess I also dislike Jenson Button because he is the WDC, is rich, drives a McLaren and has a smoking hot girlfriend? Actually, Jenson is one of my favorite drivers. I can keep destroying your argument all day long, like I said, just give up while you're behind...
Matchette's reaction re Hammy's whine tells me everything on the subject since he was a former mechanic. There is a time and place for everything. I have no problem with what hammy said its just that it should have been said in the motorhome-im sure jenson, who had a hell of a lot better reason than hammy to moan, made some comments to the team PRIVATELY. That said, I'm sure all F1 drivers moan on the radio. Last year rubens moaned on the radio that he couldn't pass another car.matchette was all over him and rightly so. Best transmission was by far the ferrari guy telling alonso he was doing a great job passing the "wankers" (backmarkers)
This seems to be a big fuss about nothing really, as far as I can see. Are McLaren bothered by Hamilton expressing his frustration on the radio?, no!, they're just getting on with the business at hand of going racing. In fact the people who are making the most fuss about it seem to be everybody bar McLaren!.
The point of the matter was not to air one's dirty laundry. Of course McLaren wouldn't be complaining publicly.
You ought to let the FIA know that they tied - they have Hamilton coming in 2nd that year and Alonso coming in 3rd, they obviously don't know as much about F1 as you though, so maybe they'll cut you a check for correcting them? Your argument that Alonso and Hamilton driving the identical car, and Hamilton beating Alonso, is irrelevant... but Alonso and Hamilton driving totally different cars and Alonso now being ahead really needs no response at all - it's ridiculous. Same car, same equipment, his rookie year, Hamilton beat Alonso. End of story. Button didn't beat out Massa when it came down to the wire, causing Massa to cry on worldwide TV and Massa's Dad to look like a tool when he was celebrating thinking his son won the WDC I'd say that's a big part of why so many dislike Hamilton. That, and he's probably the fastest driver on the grid. Nobody ever really rated Button on the top level, and while he is a good driver, he's just not one of the very best. Those ratings are reserved for Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumi, etc. To suggest that Hamilton is overrated is silly. About as silly as the argument that he got a flat tire because he drives too hard. I shall wait with baited breath for your Alonso thread next time he says something dumb on the radio. I have a feeling I will be waiting for quite a while.
Arguing semantics, eh? I guess you need to try to get a leg up somehow. On points they tied. Oh, and using evidence from 3 years ago to assume that Hamilton is still faster than Alonso when the cars and tires have completely changed is completely asinine when all evidence this year points to Alonso being faster than Hamilton despite Ham having the superior car. It wouldn't make since to say that if Alonso was in a Red Bull and Hamilton in a Force India, but the way things stand it makes complete sense to say that Alonso has outdriven Hamilton this year in an inferior car. Point, blank, period. By the way, don't put words in my mouth, I never said that Hamilton was overrated. You're grasping for straws here, making assumptions about the whole Massa/Hamilton ordeal, etc.
Any time you are discussing drivers it will ALWAYS be apples-to-oranges... The only way to measure drivers is when they are in the same team in identical chassis. Frank
Not really. When one car is obviously outperforming another yet the driver in the under-performing car is doing as well or better it says a lot. Did anyone actually believe that JV was faster than MS in 1997 due to driver skill? 'Nuff said.
I personally do not believe that Hamilton should criticize his team in public or on the radio. This is where MS and Vettel shine. They don't throw their team under the bus when it all goes pear-shaped... As a teammate you should provide a united front to the world. Behind closed doors is where you can openly discuss deficiencies and work out differences. Works well in the military and should work just as well in the racing world as well. I respect the opinions of others, but this is where I stand on the subject. Frank
It's the chassis... Did Button miraculously change from being a tail-ender to WDC in the course of a few months??? Absolutely amazing what an outstanding chassis can do for a driver's reputation Frank
Agreed, which is why I stand by my belief that Alonso has shown that he is faster than Hamilton through out-qualifying him and out-racing him this season in an inferior chassis. Regardless, the thread has gone a bit off track but I've said what I think and I sure as hell know I'm not alone.
For the record, I am very impressed that Alonso is fighting tooth and nail and wringing everything he can out of a chassis that is decidedly slower than RBR and Mac. I believe that we are both basically in agreement and the only sticking point is that we can't conclusively say Alonso is blowing away Hamilton since they are not in identical cars. What I CAN see is that Alonso is driving his *** off! A far cry from last year. He didn't change, but he got into a better chassis and is reminding people of the talent that the Renault hid for the last 2 seasons... Frank p.s. Doesn't anyone remember the dog of a Ferrari chassis last year? If Alonso had been driving that chassis this year everyone would be saying Hamilton's kicking his ***. If that was the case I would remind them that they are not competing in identical chassis...I am trying to be fair to all sides in my assessments.
Meh, as long as Hamilton is not crashing into the back of the Ferraris in the pit lane, I could care less what he says. Mclaren's and other teams' interior problems just benefit Ferrari, so why criticize Hamilton? Good boy, keep up the good work.
Hamilton beating Alonso is not semantics. It's reality. What is funny is that you're arguing that two guys in identical cars, with one beating the other is irrelevant, but two guys in completely different cars is relevant. How's that line of logic working for ya? You don't seem to have convinced too many posters, who all seem to pretty much agree with the obvious - comparing drivers in different cars doesn't make much sense, unless you want to say Button is Vettel's better, and Barrichello is Alonso's better (or was that last year and no longer counts? I forget how your logic works) Also, for the first 2-3 races, the Ferrari was unquestionably the faster car. There was an excellent graph posted on F1Technical showing this and had all the lap times from both Ferraris and McLarens for the first 3 races. Now they are much more closely matched, but that was certainly not the case as the start of the season. I can find and post it, but it wouldn't be very helpful to this silly argument you're making. Go take a look at it, it's very interesting. So the incessant whining is a form of endearment, then? And the whacky arguments contrived to discredit his achievements? Endearment too?
Your patience is amazing when responding Mike. I really admire you for your knowledge, it if was me I would fly off the handle than respond in a logic and intelligent manner.
Ridiculous statement. Wacky arguments? Please. This thread was about Hamilton's incessant childish behavior on the radio until you came in here with all this BS about how Hamilton is faster, as if that has any relevance to the original topic. The fact is, Hamilton needs to watch himself before he damages his relationship with the team. Even the heavily Hamilton-biased experts at Planet F1 agree with my view. Steve Matchett, a former mechanic, agrees with my view. I suppose people should take a keyboard warrior's words like yourself over them? He is acting like a young Alonso (who caught a boatload of flak on here for behaving similarly, yet Hamilton gets a free pass). Now, we have the Hamilton apologists like you and kraftwerk that see every thread commenting about Hamilton's actions as some sort of attack "contrived to discredit his achievements." Laughable. In terms of who is quicker, that is debatable. For you to say that Hamilton is based on results from three years ago (when they tied on points) is shaky at best. Also, during that year, don't forget that the team rallied behind Hamilton similar to how Ferrari rallied behind Massa instead of Kimi and this damaged Alonso's performance. Additionally, Alonso was gifting the rookie Hamilton his setups till halfway through the year when he got tired of it. During the second half the season, when each driver had one retirement, Alonso outscored Hamilton 59 to 45. Just a little something to think about I am basing my argument of 2010 results. In 2010, Ferrari is regarded as the slower car between them and McLaren and Alonso has proceeded to mop the floor with Hamilton. it's that simple. It makes more sense to judge the speed of a driver in the year they are competing rather than from results years ago. It wouldn't make sense if Ferrari had the speed of Red Bull and I was forming my argument from the results, but they are slower than McLaren yet Alonso is still outperforming Hamilton. Hell, even the much-malinged Button is outperforming Hamilton. A lot in Formula One has changed since 2007. The tires are different, the aero is different, and the rules are different. In a year where tire managment is very important, Alonso is (as proved by Bridgestone) one of the best at managing his tires. You don't think that would have some influence on who is quickest between him and Hamilton (one of the worst at doing so)? You don't think that some of those lap times from earlier in the year are not due to the car, but instead Alonso simply being quicker? Food for thought...
from a personal viewpoint I think Button and Alonso are the best at tyre management as proved in Australia for Jensen and Monaco for Fernando, both drivers choosing to swap tyres very early in the race for tactical reasons and then tyre management became highest priority for race strategy. Hamilton would have had another "rim" failure and then had a squawk at the team I can never remember Schuey getting irate with the team on the radio, it always seemed the failures were his or he never said anything but the wins were always the teams efforts
And this may be one of the main reasons the tifosi love him. He was a consummate team player, gave everything he had to the Scuderia, and after his time with Mercedes is done many tifosi will be happy to welcome him back home... One of my favorite videos is where Schumi says "some drivers drive this, other drivers drive that. Me, I drive the FERRARI!!!" A great champion and I for one am glad that we got to enjoy the prime of his career... Frank p.s. Hamilton would do well to emulate MS's leadership and team loyalty while he drives for McLaren...
+1. Excellent points regarding Button and Alonso. These rules were custom made for Prost...I can't help thinking that the Professor would be fighting for the championship with tire and fuel conservation becoming critical under today's conditions...
