Some hypothetical Q's about pushing the 355's tuning limits | FerrariChat

Some hypothetical Q's about pushing the 355's tuning limits

Discussion in '348/355' started by .:bigred12, May 23, 2010.

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  1. .:bigred12

    .:bigred12 Karting

    Apr 26, 2010
    153
    Clarence/Ithaca, NY
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Ok, I realize I'm new on here and I realize there's a search function.

    But honestly, the stuff I'm about to propose is kinda ridiculous and a search didn't bring up anything about these topics.

    Alright, here go some of my thoughts:

    The F355 was the first road car with an f1 transmission. If someone gets into their possession an old Ferrari Formula One engine from post 1989 (when the sequential boxes were introduced) could this engine be swapped into an F355 F1. I realize the maintenance costs would be unfathomable. But the early 90's cars had a longitudinal v12, v10, or v8 with a transverse f1 gearbox, like the setup of the 355. Would you need to use the Formula 1 gearbox with the Formula one gearbox as i understand Formula one racers have a hand-operated clutch. Or could you use the Formula one engine with the F355's flappy paddle box (albeit with an upgraded clutch, custom bell housing and tranny ecu).

    Well let's say you can get the engine in the car and you get everything sorted out with setting up the electrons, mechanical, subframes. Cooling the engine is the next problem. You'd have to completely reconfigure the air inlets into the bay, the fans, radiators. There's no giant airbox behind the driver's head.

    Also you'd lose practicality. You'd need a portable starter motor and you'd have to have a pump put coolant through the engine before starting it. But let's just say you figure this stuff out and integrate it into the car.

    In the end, this would be amazing, can you imagine the looks you'll get when your F355 screams by not a 10,000rpm, but AT 18,000RPM!! thanks to the Formula one engine.

    The F355 IMO is the best sounding Ferrari road car, why not make it sound even better with some F1 heaven.

    Is anyone crazy enough to do this? I guess I am, but I kinda lack the resources seeing I'm a prefrosh college student.

    Can you think of what other specifics a person would have to do/modify to get this to work? That's my Q to you all.

    Thanks, Tom
     
  2. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,742
    The 312T cars (Lauda and Regazoni) were the F1 cars with the transverse transmissions; these cars also had the flat V12 engine. The Transverse transmission was pursued as a mass centralization to get all the heavy bits of the transmission inside the rear axle centerline. The flat V12 engine was similarly a CoG play to get the engine as low as possible in the car. Both worked admirably until the advent of underbody aerodynamics (Lotus 79). The underbody aerodynamics (A.K.A. ground effects, and Ventrui cars) needed the space occupied by the flat V12 cylinder heads, adn the wide transmission lay and output shafts.

    The late 1980 and most of the 1990s were the turbo era (1000 HP V6 1.5 litre engines)

    The F348 and F355 chassis and overall architecture harken back to F1 cars from teh late 1970s. The F355 borrows some mid 1980 underbody aerodynamics, but the engine architecture, transmission architecture, radiator placements, suspension architecture are all from the mid 1970s F1 era.

    As far as engine architecture goes, the F355 engine is basically a mid 1970s F1 V8 that has been so engineered that it can withstand 100K miles and remain emission complient. The airflow through the engine is very similar to mid 1970s F1 V8 engine architecture (excepting the cam timing and the 5 valves). If one wanted to push the F355 engine architecture to its ultimate, one could get close to 575 HP (11K RPMs 13.5:1 compression, race gas titanium valves) for a few hours of run time, or close to 500 HP for maybe 10K miles (10K RPMs, race gas, titanium valves). What we get is 400HP (minus a little) that lasts and lasts and lasts (given the proper maintanence.)

    Back in the mid-late 1970s, the Ferrari flat V12 engine was producing 500HP from 3 litres at 11,800 RPMs. "The Art and Science or Grand Prix Driving" Niki Lauda. The F355 engine gets more due to displacement of 3.5 litres.

    If you happen to want an F355 that spins to 10K <somewhat> reliably, all yu need to is to install Titanium valves and have a cam ground with timing around 35/75-75/35 up from the stock 16/54-44/16 and use shorted headers of 23" down from 31". The cam belts and tensioners will not put up with this for long, so this engine will be removed and serviced rather regularly. It would be very wise to turn down the spin rates of all the ancilaries {Water pump, alternator, A/C, power steering} so these retain some modicum of reliability.

    If you want 18K RPMs, its time for new heads that support pneumatic valve actuation. This would take almost infinitely deep pockets. {Probably a new block too: because the piston speed needs to remain below 5000 ft/min, so the bore would grow to 105mm and the stroke shrink to 50mm (still a bit long for 18K RPMs)} But this is all silly, this engine simply would not fit in the F355/F348 engine bay--its too long by some 4".

    It it is just sound you are after, there are some people building V8 engines out of 1 and 1.2 liter superbike engine components that rev into the 15K range. A 2 litre engine of such has been purported to make almost 290 HP (not emissions legal). {16K RPMs is about the fundamental limit for spring actuated valve trains.}

    Costs:
    A) 18K RPM F355 engine--$1M up front and $30K every time you start it up
    B) 11K RPM F355 engine--$50K up front and $10K every time you start it up
    C) 10K RPM F355 engine--$15K up front and $10K per year maintanence
    D) 9.5K RPM F355 engine--$10K up front and $3K per year maintenance
    E) 9.0K RPM F355 engine--$2K up front and $1K per year maintence
    F) 8.5K RPM F355 engine--$0 up front and $1K per year maintanence

    If you want to drive around with an F1-like engine you have to be able to afford an F1 engine cost structure. {I may be SERIOUSLY UNDERSESTIMATING the cost structure of the 18K RPM engine.}
     

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