Maserati Khamsin

Not much activity here the last week or so...

I was surprised that I received no replies to my question on fluids
Khamsin owners are using in thier cars... Mayby the third time is
a charm, so here goes...

What transmission and differential fluids are you, my fellow Khamsin
owners, using in your cars???? Be specific, if possible...

Mike

 

Hi Mike,

I too would be interested on what others are using. Especially as I've been given the bad news that I'm gonna have to have the engine rebuilt.

The handbook gives Agip items, but what suitable replacements are being used by you guys for Engine, gearbox & diff ?

Bal

 

Hello Mike, Bal:

Ask MIE, BillMcGraths, Candini, Campana...it isn't the sort of question that attracts a lot of answers: my best advice is drive it to keep it current, they need to be driven regularly.

Sorry your engine has to be done Bal but once ready, specially if you get the webers redone you won't recognize it

best regards,

Marc

 

i use Agip in all my older maserati. they will sell direct. bad news about engine problem. i did three V8 motors with my wallet. very expensive since the first guy ripped me off and i had to pay twice

 

I use an Australian Nulon 15W50 Synthetic in the Engine Castrol Syntrax in the gearbox and a straight Hypoid 90 In the diff.

 

I was Driving home in the pouring rain yesterday 26th May at 345 and to my surprise I spotted the Chev Powered Khamsin going the otherway along Rookwood rd Regents Park in Sydney. I believe it sold on Ebay for $25KAUD recently.

 

Hi Bal and other fellow owners/enthusiasts...

Bal: I to am sorry to hear about the engine!!! I just disassembled my Ghibli SS
engine and am interviewing machine shops for checking block, heads and then
actually doing the work... Real bad news was that the crankshaft has a crack
in it... Fortunately, I have leads on one or two! Pull out your wallet and get
ready....

I did some research in some old MOCNA (Maserati Owners Club of North America (now
defunct)) quarterly newsletters and found the following recommendations regarding the Khamsin:

Oil Engine: Castrol 20W50

Oil Transmission: Shell Dentax 90

Oil Differential: Spirax 90BP

Oil Steering Gear: Shell Dentax 90

The steering gear oil recommendation bothers me... We know the cars have the speed-
sensitive hydraulic system which requires LHM or suitable substitute... Don't know what Shell Dentax 90 is, but if it's used in the transmission, I wouldn't use it in the LHM... This
may be a bad reference or perhaps a former MOCNA member who reads this can share
some insight! But it also makes me question the other recommendations... Also, I'm not
sure if Dentax 90 or Spirax 90BP are even available anymore?? The recommendations
were from about 2002...

Now, for engine oil, I only use Castrol 20W50 on all my Maserati cars - Mexico, Khamsin,
and Biturbo...

Food for thought or money down the drain - take your pick!

Mike

 

Guys,

Thanks for all your kind words. I was kinda putting things off, but knew I would have to have it apart soon. I'd been having some coolant loss and overheating issues that wereleading towards the head gaskets.

So as you say, time to take a deep breath and break open the piggy bank.

I'm hoping all will be better once the work is done. I already purchased a webber rebuild kit so will look to see what we can do with the car once the guys have pulled it out of the car.

Just gotta work out a way of getting the parts in from the states and minimise the import duty hit.
By all accounts this is the cheapest of getting the parts when comparing to McGraths or Campana.

Will keep you posted, though probably be back for advice.

Bal

 

Does the Khamsin engine/oil system have any seals that prohibit the use of full synthetic engine oil?
If so, now's the time to look for seals that make the use of it possible.

A lot has changed in oil technology in 30+ years, and there are ways to protect your engine in a better way than with dino-oil.

 

You're not using synthetic for the Biturbo Mike?

P.S. Normally I don't get into engine oil discussions. I prefer a simutaneous mix of politics and religion but If you're engine has a turbo it better be a synthetic.

Pastor Bob S.

 

I agree Jack. Certainly there's nothing special about the front and rear main seals. You can get those in any sort of rubber you'd like. Sorry but I don't know a damn thing about the Maserati dry sump system except that when it comes to oil systems and Maseratis I think the term "dry" is an ill chosen term. The cam cover gaskets, the lovely half moon rubber pieces, all those rubber impregnated washers and the general crummy quality of the castings are what I think lead some people to believe that the synthetic oils can sneak past these "sealing" surfaces more easily. I don't know that anyone has done any scientific testing on this. But maybe any older car, not rebuilt, that has synthetic dumped into it does begin to weep a bit more? My "vintage" Espada had all new seals and cam cover gaskets glued on to it when I got it and it barely leaked a drop . The 1" id crankcase breather hose at the front of the engine makes up for this in spades ... Call me superstitious but I've stuck with the Castrol 20W50 dino on that car so far. All my other vehicles run synthetic.

Bob S.

 

Well after a few months I have my Khamsin back having had a complete engine rebuild and lots of other minor works done to it. eg new brake discs and pads; all hydraulics rebuilt and overhauled etc
Driven about 500 miles since then and a few wee issues still to resolve and then other works needing done eg seat retrim etc still to go!
What a NOISE!! Deep muscular baratone rumbling. It did about 18mpg (european) on the drive up from London which is about 2mpg better than before the rebuild.
have a steering pull to left which sjould have been spotted and a vibration at back which could be tyre or exhaust.
I can understand now why the early road tests speak of these cars being so fast. Buckets of torque and serious pull in any gear! I thought it was fast before as well but nothing like now!

Need to put some miles on her before expoiting the engine fully.

I have been speaking to Bal about my experiences and lessons and happy to give informal advice or guidance to anyone else looking for same.

Sadly the best way to look at problems is just to do everything needing done at the one time and bite the big bill bullet!!

Paul
xx

 

Hi Bal
I wouldnt be to concerned about head gaskets. The life of these is limited due to the fact they use steal support rings, they corrode--> Leak .
One thing I would highly recomend is drain the coolant to stop any coolant running into the bores.

More than likely just the gaskets need changing. Left with fluid in the bores and you will have corroded bores and that is a full engine build.
On the flip side and a recomendation if I may be so bold, If it is serious and the there is corrosion in the bores change the linners not the pistons.

One thing you will get a surprise with is if you are putting it back to standard the crank wont need a grind. The quality of the machining in these cranks and the fact they are Nitrided from new means they will be on size and round.. mine were so good the machine shop said I hope you dont want these ground I cannot match the quality!

If you also have oil pressure issues it the sender unit for the guage they are c##p.
many early Ghibilies had engine build only to dicover the sender unit is lying. They are nutoriously unreliable

Another note when you have the heads skimmed( ground) to ensure they flat, when the inlet manifold goes back on make sue it sits on the dowels and not off the dowels or you have a port miss-match

There is Qport manual in existance but be carefull the crank jurnal sizes are different and the valve seat angle is different but the rest is the same if you interested I have a copy.
This doesnt cover the dry sump.

If you get to full strip and I recon you wont ask lots of questions there are pleanty of people to help with lots of little tips like valve spring replacement etc.

Graeme

 

Bob,

Yes, often the castings in older engines were made with such tolerances that the full synth oils slip through easilly, also gasket materials have improved vastly over the last few years.
The first point to address howver, when deciding between types of oils (not talking about viscosity) is if the seals can withstand the synthetic oil, which a lot of old seals cannot. And seals are everywhere, on your crank, but also in the oil-cirquit to the pumps and tank.

The standard engine with its' huge diameter crank-pins would certainly benefit from the use of a modern full synth oil.

 

Bob... you are correct, I'm not using synthetic in the Biturbo...

When I bought the car in '87, I began using Castrol 20W50 and
have been using it ever since... I thought alot about synthetic
but never had any problems with the Castrol... I do change the
oil every 3k religiously....

The only problem I ever had with any of the turbo's was non-
oil related... If I recall correctly, the car suffered an engine
mount problem, which crushed(?) a turbo oil line, resulting in
the turbo starving for oil... 6 months to the day, that turbo
failed...

I never really drive any of my cars hard... Me and the B (to
qoute a phrase from a friend of mine) spent alot of time together
traveling between the east and west coasts of FL.. Besides
the turbo issue mentioned above, the only other time it failed
was a water pump issue.. I put about 40K on it in 1.5 years..

Still love the car!

Mike

 

In some cases it's outright porosity. A number of guys have had to get portions of these old engines impregnated with an anerobic type sealer. I'll bet the synthetics make those types of issues that much worse.

I guess you need to find out the dimensions of the seals used in the dry sump system and see if if they're available in modern materials.

The rear main is identical to the one used on the Biturbo and some BMW marine engines and they certainly use synthetics.

Bob S.

 

Now edited for neutrality.

"Normally I don't get into engine oil discussions. I prefer a simutaneous mix of politics and religion ". ;>))

Glad you're still enjoying the car Mike. Me too since 1985. I guess we're just wierd ....

Bob S.

 

Interesting that the problem occurs with these castings.
Porousity is usually more associated with magnesium castings, and the main reason why a lot of these castings were painted inside, and sometimes also on the outside.
Yes, in case of porous castings a full synth will give extra headaches.

 

My my this thread is going like a runaway train down a slope: excellent

Paul congratulations on your engine rebuild and thanks for the description of how it is now running: I think Bal would be most encouraged in his upcoming tasks on his car by a ride in yours!


Mike:

"I never really drive any of my cars hard... "

Ah err yes I can confirm that, it reminds me of the only time I almost fell asleep at the wheel of my Khamsin was following you to that concours south of Fort Lauderdale;-)
Sorry couldn't resist

best regards,

Marc

 

Does anyone recognize this problem: "Maserati placed the black box that supplies power from the coil, which controls all of the car’s electrics, at the very front of the car on a cross-member just under the grille. The obvious problem is that it sucks up whatever the road can throw at it."
They seem to suggest that electrical problems when driving in the rain are inevitable. I never heard this before (and never drive in the rain, but I'm still curious!).

I read about it in this article: http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/magazine/3700.asp?id=14443

 

Hi Graeme,

Thanks for the advice, very useful information. I won't know the full extent of the work until the engine has been removed and taken apart. I do know that the initial inspection showed no exhaust gasses in the header tank, but that's not conclusive. There is slime in the header tank so it must be getting there from somewhere. The compression is down on piston #2, at 125 and #7 at 115. #7 bore shows scoring when checked with an endoscope so let's see what comes out of the woodwork.

I hope the crank is in good shape as well. Hopefully the dismantling work should start in a couple of weeks, and then as you all say the fun starts.

I'll more likely as not be in touch asking more questions.

But on a postive note, Paul called today whilst out in his rebuilt car, and boy was the engine note to die for, awesome.

Bal

 

Hello AMLC:

Another knowledgeable Maseratista who prefers not to post just emailied me the following in response to your comment/question:

Hi Marc,

I was just reading this on the Khamsin chat site:

Does anyone recognize this problem: "Maserati placed the black box that supplies power from the coil, which controls all of the car’s electrics, at the very front of the car on a cross-member just under the grille. The obvious problem is that it sucks up whatever the road can throw at it."
They seem to suggest that electrical problems when driving in the rain are inevitable. I never heard this before (and never drive in the rain, but I'm still curious!).

I read about it in this article: http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/maga...0.asp?id=14443

It is a well known phenomenon for people who really drive their Khamsins and hit some rain from time to time; great to get that tail end out!
The photo shows the box as mounted on the later Khamsins (this one is #504) so the ignition box stays a dry as possible. Advised mod!
Originally it was mounted on the cross member in front of the radiator, the lid is on the top side. Over time the seal dries out and lets water in, the way the box is mounted the water stays in and cuts out the ignition!

End of message.

Seems like a wise modification for those who drive which is what keeps a Khamsin happy, not fussing

best regards,

Marc
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# 504???

 

AM120504, the highest left hand drive Euro chassis number (but not the last car built which is AM120439 now in...the same country as you.

best regards,

Marc

 

Hi Marc,

Yes, I know where 439 is
What I didn't know was that the numbering on LH and RHF cars isn't sequential.

Thanks for educating me!

Jack.