Hello everyone, This morning on my way to work my Mondi completely stalled out at 70 mph. I pulled over to the side of the road it wouldn't start up again. I tried to start it a few times with no luck, the car was cranking but it wouldn't fire. I had the car towed home and once it was unloaded I tried to start it again and it fired right off and purred like a kitten. I'm thinking that I may have a problem with my ignition or fuel system. Im leaning more towards a fuel problem because I didnt smell gas when I got out of the car and if it was ignition I wouldve thought I wouldve smelled gas after I tried to start it. If anyone has seen this before or has any ideas what it could be I would appreciate some advice.
If it turns out to be the fuse box, do a search and you will find where Russ and I got our new ones. Good Luck. I hope it's just the fuel filter though, one bad lot of fuel or water could do it. If it runs well for 20 minutes or so, then quits and won't run for another 20 minutes, then starts and runs fine for another 20 minutes, etc., then its the filter.
My guess.... and only a guess... you have an electrical problem... either a cracked wire, or connector... have you checked fuses on the relays located in the trunk area? it could be something simple like that. If your fuel pump goes... my guess is it will pull more amps and your fuse for the pump goes first... Did you hit any bumps or pavement that sets up a harmonic vibration... could have worked something loose... happens a lot on these cars.
It did run for about 20 min and once it wouldn't start after my initial attempts I didn't try it again for over an hour. When I was trying to start it I did try listening for the fuel pump and couldn't hear it kick on but with the noise of the interstate... If it is a fuel filter would letting it idle for 20-30 min recreate the problem? If so I'll try that tonight when I get home. I didn't check the fuel pump relay but I think it may be a good time to replace all my relays... and maybe the fusebox too as it looks like it's getting some burn marks on the connectors from getting hot.
When I got home I turned the key and I was able to hear the fuel pump engage. Once I heard it click and stop pumping I attempted to start the car and it wouldn't start. I tried a couple of times with no luck. I waited about another hour and when I tried to start it the car sputtered a bit so I pressed the accelerator and it started. I let it sit and idle (periodically revving the engine to 3-4k) for about 30 min and it ran good. I shut it down and then it wouldn't restart, it would just sputter. I know warm start problems are usually old/bad fuel injectors but my car has never had a problem with warm starts before so I assume this is all related to my original problem which I'm starting to think is the fuel filter because I was able to hear the fuel pump engage. Does it sound like I'm headed down the right path? I was able to find both the fuel pump and fuel filter at autohausaz. Fuel Filter http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=d5hy4u55u10vq3epwthevt55&pn=W0133-1634556,W0133-1630039,W0133-1628719, Fuel Pump http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=d5hy4u55u10vq3epwthevt55&pn=W0133-1755100,
Your model does not work like this -- if you turn the key "on", without the engine running, the fuel pump does not run. Also, once it is running, it does not "stop pumping" (it recirculates continuously as long as the conditions to keep it running are met). To have the fuel pump come "on" by turning the key "on" without the engine running, you need to unplug the safety switch on the airflow metering device (which simulates an "open" safety switch like when the engine is running) -- i.e., this is the test that you should do when you have the problem -- unplug the safety switch, turn the key "on", if you can't hear the fuel pump running = something in the fuel pump system is the problem; if you can hear the fuel pump running = something else is the prooblem: Image Unavailable, Please Login PS Follow Edwardo's advice and unplug/inspect the connectors on your fuse-relay panel -- look for "frazzled"
Thanks for posting that pic Steve! Edwardo is right on the money with my fusebox, it's got some burn marks on the connectors so I'm not ruling it out (or anything else) at this point. I'm adding that to my to do list to replace this year. Tomorrow I'll test the fuel pump as suggested and if I hear it kick on then I'll be pretty sure it's not the problem. Since the fuel filter hasn't been changed in about 6 years (I thought it should last longer than 9k miles) I'll order a new one and replace it anyway. I'm just hoping it's a simple fuel problem because the only ignition problem I've had was a bad coil module and that was an easy thing to troubleshoot and replace... With with that problem one bank of cylinders still ran. If it's an ignition problem now I wouldn't even know where to begin. I'll certainly keep everyone posted. I really appreciate the replies!
Exact thing happened to my '86 Cabrio on a hot summer day last year. I pulled over and instictively went to the fuse box. The relay for the fuel pump was HOT (and I mean HOT). I let it cool and pulled it and swapped it with another relay in the fuse box of the exact same type (but from a circuit that doesn't get the constant pull that the fuel pump circuit does). Turn the key and vrooommmmm!!! No problems since. (I replaced the relay later when I returned home with a new one). The relay just got too hot (plus it's old). Car has 43K miles, but the metal shrouded relays seems to not age very well. The fuse box on this car was upgraded by the previous owner, so that wasn't the culprit.
When I disconnected the safety switch I heard a buzzing sound (and I may be mistaken but it sounded like it was coming from directly below where the safety switch is located) and I was able to smell fuel. When I tried to start the car it fired up with no problem on the first turn of the key like it normally does (much easier than it started last night). I'm concerned about the buzzing sound because it's not what I thought a fuel pump would sound like. Are there any other devices that engage when you remove the safety switch? BTW... After reading the replies on this thread along with some other posts I've decided it would be in my best interest to install an upgraded fuse box and new relays. Even if it's not an electrical issue now it sounds like it could turn into one really easily.
Long shot - but I had a similar problem. Pull off the engine access cover behind the rear seats and check and make sure your plugs aren't toasted or jacked up. Mine were burnt pretty bad and depending on straight line, turning, etc. power would come in and out.
Yes, with the safety switch unplugged and the key "on", the entire K-Jet with Lambda injection system will be operating, so the frequency valve will be "buzzing" (so try to ignore that ); however, I'd characterize the sound of the fuel pump (when working correctly) as a fairly loud humming. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Haha OK, it's good to know that's normal! Well, I tried it again and when I crouch by the right rear wheel I do hear a humming and swooshing kind of sound like it's moving fuel so I think my fuel pump is engaging. I couldn't really hear it until I crouched down by the wheel though. All of this has been done with the engine cold so tomorrow I'll let it warm up for about 20-30 min and see if I can replicate the issue from yesterday. If so I'll remove the safety switch and listen for the fuel pump and then if I don't hear it I'll check relays. One more quick question. If I need to, will I be able to access the fuel pump without removing the bottom plastic guard that runs underneath the whole car?
Today I ran the car for about 20 min and when I shut it down it wouldn't start back up. I pulled the safety switch and I crouched down by the wheel and I couldn't hear the fuel pump, only the frequency valve. I felt the relays and P and R were hot. This baffles me because I wasn't running my AC so I wouldn't think P would get hot but I understand why R would. I tapped the relays a few times and tried to start the car again and it still wouldn't start. It appears to me my fuel pump may be the cause of my problem. Are there any other things I should test before I place an order for a new fuel pump?
Yes. The metal pan has about a dozen short bolts in it ... maybe 9MM or so. The pan is a lot bigger than you might guess. About 3 feet long and maybe 16 inches wide. Be sure to turn off the battery switch at the battery. I'm not implying you are careless, but with fuel, air and spark all in the same area I thought it would be worth a mention. BTW, I would change the hoses into and out of the pump and filter while you are down there and everything is accessable. Good luck!@
Before replacing the pump, make a voltage measurement between the two terminals on the pump when it isn't running (but should be): If +12V = you can be fairly sure that you need a new pump. If not +12V = you need to examine the electrical components/connections that should be supplying the +12V (we've had more reports of this being the trouble than the pump itself, but either is still possible without more information).
I took the gravel guard off and let it idle again for about 40 min and I kept restarting it every 10 min trying to recreate the problem and it kept starting with no problem. Either my problem is more intermittent than I thought or removing the gravel guard allowed more air to the fuel pump preventing it from warming up to the point it would quit pumping. Tonight I'm going to pull the fuse box to see what kind of condition it's really in. Thanks again for all the help and advice with this problem. I really appreciate it!
This has happened to me on a few occasions and eventually traced to the big connector that takes the power to the fuseboard, the vertical one. Replaced that and everything came back to life as normal.
I pulled my fusebox this weekend and it appeared to be fine. There were some darkening around the area the fuel pump wires connect to it but it didn't look bad. The vertical connector JeffQV mentioned is another story... The brown wires have gotten so hot at some point that they melted the connector and someone had had to put a new female blade connector on it so when you plug the vertical connector back in it makes a secure connection (it is a secure connection but not a nice looking one). I've ordered a new fuel pump, fuel filter, and a new vertical connector and I'm hoping to have it all installed by next week. While I'm at it I think it's a good idea to replace my fuel lines too while I'm in there.
I've replaced the fuel pump, filter, and accumulator and I thought I would take it for a run today. I took the car to the gas station (about 2 miles away) and filled it up and when I tried to start it the engine would crank but not fire. I'm letting it sit for a while to see if it recovers like it had before. The thing that really gets me is my car hasn't had a problem with warm starts in the past.
I think you either have a cracked wire or cracked connector .... to me that is why the erratic starting ....
Mantra on another site I frequent, relay relay relay...if you have a bad relay you'll get behavior just like you describe. Simple to check with a jumper wire or just buy a new relay - they are cheap.
