Assistance Needed: 2007 F430 F1 Transmission Problem | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Assistance Needed: 2007 F430 F1 Transmission Problem

Discussion in '360/430' started by Tarek K., Apr 18, 2010.

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  1. drmikethompson

    drmikethompson Karting

    Oct 7, 2006
    57
    Jonesboro, AR.
    Full Name:
    Michael L. Thompson
    Tarek,
    I am having the same reverse problem with my 07 430. If I drive around town for 30-45 minutes, I cannot engage reverse. This has happened 3-4 times in past 3 months. I send the car once a year to the dealer to have ALL fuids and filters changed. Last time was March, 2010. Clutch wear in the teens. The car is headed back to the dealer soon. Otherwise, I love this car - it is hands down the best car I'ved owned.

    Mike
     
  2. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
    Full Name:
    Tarek K.
    Mike, I have very little clutch wear on my 2007 F430 F1, the car has only done about 2600 miles. I have spoken to the service manager and they guess it's a clutch material quality issue which leads to clutch overheating and effecting the reverse engaging. Once the car is left to cool for a couple of minutes, the reverse will re-engage.
    The new clutch will be installed in the next couple of days. Hopefully it will solve the problem. I will definitely keep you all posted.
     
  3. Judge

    Judge Karting

    Aug 14, 2007
    54
    SF Bay Area
    Tarek

    My symptoms are exactly the same as yours as you have further clarified them. I have 3k miles, reverse engages within a few minutes after cool down. Makes for some interesting conversation in front of a restaurant valet!!

    The dealer has done the same work as you have described for mine and to no avail again. I am going to wait until I hear from you on whether the fix works. Lets hope it works.
     
  4. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
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    Tarek K.
    #29 Tarek K., Jun 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
    The new clutch on my F430 is being installed today. It's being changed on warranty. The old clutch showed severe signs of overheating, but no wear.
    Tomorrow I will test drive the car and post the results.............hopefully it's the end to the problem.

    Good luck Judge in solving your "reverse gear" problem. It's most likely the same issue.
     
  5. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
    Full Name:
    Tarek K.
    The news is not so good. The F430 received a new clutch which did not solve the problem.

    Went to the dealer today to test drive the car. It took 40 minutes of hard drivng to reproduce the failure. After 40 minutes of fast driving and shifting at high rpms, the car would not accept reverse gear although the SD3 was showing that reverse was selected.

    The dealer will now order a new F1 kit for the F430. It can't be anything else.

    Atleast now I have a new clutch ;).

    Will keep you all posted..............
     
  6. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    16,445
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    Tell the dealer trading the 430 in on an early delivery 458 would be a good way to solve the 'F1' shift problems...
    Still, good luck with the latest fix attempted!
    CH
     
  7. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
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    Tarek K.
    Thanks CH, I'll suggest it to them ;).
     
  8. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
    Full Name:
    Tarek K.
    The dealer called me yesterday again.........Italy want to know the F1 pressure when the fault occurs. I am just wondering why they did not think about it before.
    I had to drive the car with the Ferrari mechanic for 40 minutes today to reproduce the failure. They were kind enough to visit me at home instead of having to drive more than one hour to the Ferrari workshop.

    This repair is taking too long and it is really starting to annoy me. I am running out of patience. I called the Ferrari Middle East aftersales manager yesterday to inform him of my frustration and disappointment in how Ferrari is dealing with this matter. After a long discussion he promised that he will personally attend to this matter and have it resolved once and for all. It is taking Ferrari almost 3 months and 500km of driving on my F430 to resolve this F1 failure.
     
  9. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    #34 360trev, Jul 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
    If its any help the hydraulic working pressure should be between 45 and 55 bar (there is a pressure relief valve to avoid system over-pressure).

    • Working temperature between -30°C and +125°C
    • Starting must also be possible with a temperature of -30°C
    • The pump flow rate must be 0.8l/min at 60°C
    • The accumulator volume must be 350 cm3 at 20°C (this value is important because it determines the
    discharge time)

    The hydraulic system has these functions:

    1. To supply the hydraulic energy needed to control the actuators
    2. Gear shaft control
    3. Clutch control

    The fundamental function of the hydraulic system is to supply the hydraulic energy to control the actuators (gear change). Therefore the possibility to change gear is tightly bound to the pressure of the oil in the circuit, with values between 45 and 55 bar.
     
  10. Nico

    Nico Karting

    Jan 16, 2005
    148
    Socal
    Hi Tarek, any updates? Hope everything is working out fine
     
  11. Donie

    Donie Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2006
    346
    Spain/Ireland
    Hello Tarek,

    I too have been wondering when you might be posting an update on the clutch saga.

    I hope you are winning the battle.
     
  12. drmikethompson

    drmikethompson Karting

    Oct 7, 2006
    57
    Jonesboro, AR.
    Full Name:
    Michael L. Thompson
    Tarek, Any luck with your F1 transmission problem? My problems have been identical to yours as far as not engaging reverse when hot. I am wondering if the hydraulic fluid in the F1 pump could be boiling similar to brake fluid boiling. This would not answer why we have only have trouble engaging reverse.

    Mike
     
  13. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,280
    Question: When you experience the difficulty engaging reverse, can you shift to First gear and then engage reverse without going to neutral?
     
  14. drmikethompson

    drmikethompson Karting

    Oct 7, 2006
    57
    Jonesboro, AR.
    Full Name:
    Michael L. Thompson
    Tried that but to no avail. What is also interesting is that not being to engage reverse only happens after the car has gotten pretty hot. The first time was after lightly tracking at Road Atlanta. Before I went to the track ALL the fluids and filters were changed at the dealer. After letting the car sit for 30 minutes with the lid open, reverse was engaged with no problem. The next time it happened I was driving around town, second, third gear mostly and typically 3000 to 4500 rpm. After 45 minutes, no reverse gear. The service tech at the dealer feels the actuator may be slightly out of adjustment. The car is headed there soon. We'll see!!!

    Mike
     
  15. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Mar 15, 2010
    604
    Houston, TX
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    Juri
    #40 Juri, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is a sure symptom of F1 hydraulic pump overheating and it will brake (burn) pretty soon !

    Solution of this problem is quite simple - install a special radiator kit for the F1 pump:
    http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=343620
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  16. Oengus

    Oengus F1 World Champ
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  17. jinferno

    jinferno Rookie

    Apr 5, 2009
    32
    I had similar problems with my 2007F430 and FNA finally had to authorize a F1 kit. I smell a recall
     
  18. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    Mar 15, 2010
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    Juri
    #43 Juri, Aug 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It is very unlikely that there will be a recall, because problems with this infamous F1 pump persisted from 1999, when 360 Modena came out, and continued into F430, F599, etc. Same F1 pump model and same problems with Maseratis, Alfas, and several other Euro cars that utilize similar model pumps from Magneti Marelli (now Denso-Marelli).

    Problem had escalated to such a high degree that several Euro car manufacturers (i.e., Renault, Mercedes, BMW, and even Alfar Rmeo) no longer use this Denso-Marelli part in their Automatic Manual Transmission (AMT, in Renault), Sequential Manual Gear changing system (SMG, in BMW), Seletronic (in Mercedes) and Selespeed (in Alfa Romeo). All of those cars had similar probelms!

    Schematics of these different hydraulic-assisted gear changing systems from Magneti Marelli are provided in the picture below. By the way, I think that the names for their systems like "S-CAM" (or simpy "scam") and "Flex S-CAM" ("flexible scam", used on Ferraris) may indeed reflect the truth about design and performance of these systems... :).

    However, a lot of dealerships and part distributors continue to thrive on Ferrari's loyalty to Denso-Marelli as the exclusive supplier of many Ferrari parts (ECU, TCU, sensors, pumps, ignition coils, etc.). This is, of course, at the Ferrari owners' expense ...

    But wait, soon it may get even worse... Recently, Magneti Marelli announced a deal with a Shanghai Automobile Gear Works (SAGW), referred to as SMMP (SAIC Magneti Marelli Powertrain Co. Ltd.), aimed to establish a new plant for the production of hydraulic components for the Magneti Marelli Freechoice™ transmission (or AMT, Automated Manual Transmission ). On one hand, this means that pretty soon there will be a lot of cheap F1 pumps comming onto the market from China. On another hand, will those pumps with a sticker (Made in China) be any better ...?

    Here is the link to these news:
    http://www.japaneseautoauctions.com/magneti-marelli-saic-joint-venture-in-chinainauguration-of-the-jiading-shanghai-plant
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  19. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
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    Tarek K.
    Gentlemen...........after many discussions with the Ferrari Middle East area manager over the last three weeks, Ferrari Italy finally agreed to replace the complete F1 kit on my F430. The parts were sent to Egypt last week and the installation of the new F1 kit was completed yesterday. The local dealer is now waiting for me to test drive the car which I will do after the weekend.

    I will post the results of the test drive.
     
  20. Juri

    Juri Formula Junior
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    Mar 15, 2010
    604
    Houston, TX
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    Juri
    Hopefully, this complete replacement of F1 system will resolve your car probelms.
    Whishing you the best of luck!
     
  21. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
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    Tarek K.
    Thank you Juri...........


    Got the F430 back from the dealer. It rides and shifts great now. I even think it shifts quicker now after the F1 kit has been replaced ..........hope it stays like that.
     
  22. m.roberts

    m.roberts Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2009
    907
    USA
    Glad to hear you are up and running! What an ordeal!!!!
     
  23. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
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    Tarek K.
    Thanks Matt.........it wasn't an easy fix. Took over 4 months to get it approved by Ferrari and done.
     
  24. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    99,162
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Pap
    Good to hear mate! :D:D
     
  25. Tarek K.

    Tarek K. F1 World Champ

    Sep 7, 2006
    10,784
    Cairo - Egypt
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    Thanks my friend ;)............
     

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