Roland Linder

Why are you arguing about it? So what? He let some rumors about him go unheaded. Are you really going to go and say that you have never done that in your life? It happens to everyone. I wouldn't think that going online to a forum to clear up these "untruths" would effect anything. That's likely why he didn't bother. If people really cared they would ask him and I'm sure he would tell the truth.

 

Calling himself a "Double Le Mans Winner" in a commercial advertisement for Mothers Car Wax is a bit more than:

"He let some rumors about him go unheaded."

I accept his apology but that doesn't change the fact that allowing that was very wrong.

 

+1

...and with that, I'm out of this thread...

 

that isn't a false statement though is it?

 

Yes it's totally false. Being a member of a team that won in class does not make one a Double Le Mans winning Driver as Roland's Claim in the Mother's advertisement clearly misleadingly led one to believe.

The absolute proof of that is once Mother's Learned that Roland was in fact not a Double
Le Mans winning Driver as Roland had claimed he was they immediately removed that totally misleading claim from their advertisement.

 

i still don't see how that is false. If you are part of a team that wins a competition twice then how are you not the winner of that competition twice?

I came into this very late...I never heard anything about this guy until this thread and even so I've only skimmed the surface so I'm just trying to understand what this is about. To me it seems this guy has done nothing wrong. He could have maybe done some things more correct but I dont see anything blatantly "wrong"

 

He wasn't a Double Le Mans Winning DRIVER as he clearly misleadingly stated in the Mother's advertisement.

He NEVER Drove a car at Le Mans. His claims that he had and had won as a Driver at Le Mans were NOT true.

Why do you think he began this thread by apologizing?

 

I don't know. I just stated in my previous post I only just began to follow this. Either way, did he not DRIVE motorcycles in le mans races?

 

...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.


_J

 

*Passive aggressiveness aside, why do you think anyone here gives two craps about you and your car and your illusory cv? What races did you and your rebuilt F40 win? That car was built to satisfy your wildest dreams, so show us the trophies that your car won in your dreamworld you conjured up.

*Roland....my entire post was rhetorical in nature. We already know the truth.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I just don't understand the amount and/or the level of personal animosity expressed in this thread. I've never met Roland, so therefore he's never done anything personally to me to upset me. Morality of what said about what he did (or didn't do) aside, what has he done to personally hurt, rip off, or wrong anyone on this thread?

If you picked up a bottle of Mother's products at your local auto parts solely because you were thinking "I'm gonna use the same stuff that Le Mans winners use," and then were pissed off when it turns out that Mother's didn't put an asterisk at the bottom of the screen saying "on motorcycles," your best recourse would have been to return the bottle. Just like you could have returned your Milli Vanilli CD (but you still listen to it late at night, don't you? Admit it... or just Blame it on the Rain).

Do I believe the Mother's commercials were misleading? Of course I do. And it was the very first misleading advertisement I've EVER SEEN! Why, TV commercials are usually brimming with such truth & transparency! How could a company actually say things that weren't 100% true on a medium as sacred as TELEVISION? I mean, I've been buying those pills from TV for years now that promise to affect that "certain part of the male anatomy," and I have totally noticed my nose getting WAY bigger! And I'm sure that any day now, I'll be able to buy my dream mansion with no money down!

But... do feel that Roland has wronged me personally? Nope. As an F40 owner, do I feel that he has forever sullied the reputation of F40 owners and, by extension, ALL Ferrari owners and, by further illogical reach, angered the ghost of Enzo and now I must take revenge by being a public hater on some 8-bit digital corkboard? LOL, no... but it seems that some of you haters sure do!

Look, if Roland wronged you, take it up with him personally (and privately). Otherwise, let's just stop the stone throwing. You know... glass houses... he without sin first stone stuff... yada... yada... etc.

On a somewhat different note, I watched that F40 go up in flames here in Seattle with my own eyes. I think it's awesome that someone was crazy enough to turn it into ANYTHING other than a really expensive paperweight. I don't feel threatened or feel that my F40 is de-valued in any way because of that car's existence.

Everyone pull the gear lever out of your butts and let's just have fun talking about and driving our Ferraris. Oh... you don't own any Ferraris older than the year 2000 and don't know what a gear lever is? Well, you see, back in my day, we had to use our left foot to press in a pedal... and it was uphill both ways... popcorn was a nickel...

 

While I don't know Roland personally, we do know people in common. I'm told he's a pretty darn good driver. There really shouldn't be a need to puff things up.

However, here's the offensive bit: from my understanding he does/did some driving instruction and coaching. A false claim about his credentials is tantamount to fraud in the inducement. Arguably he financially benefitted BECAUSE OF the fact that there was a misrepresentation made (by a third party) that he didn't clarify. He likely got instructing and coaching business, in part, through the Mother's "notoriety". Or, he was able to charge a higher rate because he's a "Le Mans Winning Driver". I mean, how much would you pay to have Hurley Haywood, Derek Bell or Michael Schumacher as your coach? Now, while he might be a good driver, how much would you pay Roland for the same services? If he did a good job for his clients and students, there's hardly much damage done. But, this, like many other things is about reputation.

Yes, we all self-promote to some degree. Some more than others. BUT, I make every effort not to lose my own credibility in the process. Like I said, ask Richard Blumenthal how he feels about the subject.

You also raise the point of taking it up with him personally. Yes, if I had been a client, I might have done so. However, he is the OP in this thread. He's made this a public topic. He is a "public personality" due to the Mothers ads. Frankly, it's kind of hard to stay in a shell, pop one's head out, offer up a pseudo-apology/explanation and expect everyone to just carry on as if nothing's happened. The man traded, to some extent, on his good name. It wasn't exactly true. He was caught at it. He loses none/some/all (that's up to the individual, I guess, how much) credibility in so doing.

And, to all those who "defend" him, if there was no problem, why did Mothers change the ad? To me, that's the tell tale sign that there was some inaccuracy. There's egg on both their faces.

I don't wish him any ill will, and I'll wager he's got some great racing stories to tell us all. But, do not pretend like this isn't a big deal. It is. If some don't want to acknowledge that, that's fine, but this is about character and reputation. It's not about driving skill or what he's done with a burned out hulk.

CW

 

He was indeed trading on that "Le Mans" reputation as a driving coach. When I went to the original Cavallino Rampage (or whatever it was called) in Vegas, part of the excitement was getting to meet Roland and get his feedback during the driving portion. Sadly I didn't get to take my car, but he was treated as a celebrity by everyone there. No doubt he got a premium from the organizer over 'Joh Bloe, track instructor.'

The car, no big deal; but it shouldn't have taken an external investigation to determine the truth about the race, nor should third parties have to get involved to the the infamous Mother's ad (which aired -after- the Vegas stuff) corrected. Does anyone here think Roland didn't see that ad before it aired?

I was saddened when I realized that the Le Mans winning driver I met was a fraud. So be it, and at least I didn't get hurt financially from it, but it's kinda like finding out the US President you met was actually just a photo-op stand-in.

 

The amusing thing is that there actually -is- a 2 time class winning LeMans driver on this board, but he's rather quiet about it.

 

There are 1 overall Le Mans winners on FCHAT as well but as you say they're quiet about it.

Your Post is the Bottom Line.

You payed for something that you didn't get and as you point out Mother's did too.

Best

 

Probably because their parents gave them humble pie as kids.

 

I met Mr. Linder in spring '03 at an "old F-Chat" luncheon in Pasadena CA, organized by Jean-Michelle and ...(another guy who's name escapes me, he had 348 Challenge car that needed to be push started everywhere we went). Roland was friendly approachable gear-head who's enthusiasm was obvious and contagious. At that time, His resurrection of of the F40 was almost complete. Later that summer he brought it to an "old F-Chat" ride & drive from Thousand Oaks CA, to Ojai wine country. If you haven't seen or heard this car run. I must say for me it was a defining moment. That car on the road is absolutely amazing! Although I didn't get any passenger seat time I did get about 90 miles to follow the F40LM through some of the best roads in Santa Barbra and Ventura County. After the drive back to TO I'll never forget how involved he made everyone feel in looking after the car. Even letting me (under his supervision) mount spacers on the F40's hubs before a few of us helped push it back on to the trailer. I'll never forget that day, several of us hangers-on were wearing red F-team polos and it looked and felt like a true Scuderia.
After reading this thread one thing has become very apparent. Everyone has defining moments in life. Some are infamous and some go unnoticed. Which you choose to dwell on is more a reflection on he who cast the first stone.
When I think of Roland Linder, I prefer to think of the F40 that went from a pile of ashes to a mechanically superior one off homage. I think of the cool French guy who always gets back on the horse regardless of what his body says. And I always think of that awesome day in Ventura Country.

Welcome back Roland.

 

Belgian, actually. But yeah.

 

Yeh, nowadays nobody really wants to be classified as "french", perhaps that I should not say that! I don't know why?

 

My appologies. I just a long discussion with a friend about the French National football team. Oh mon Dieu!!!

 

LOL --- I was born in Belgium. My Mother was native Belgian, but of the "French" region and cultural heritage, and my Father is French.

When I'm asked here in the States, and depending on who's asking, I often say that I'm Belgian rather than French!! I'm not ashamed to call myself French, but I do get tired of the derisive comments about the French from folks over here....so not saying I'm French means I don't have to listen to their crap

BTW, this thread has gotten so out of hand and absurd, that we might as well hijack it and change the topic ---- "What is your nationality?" seems as good as any

And, the French have given the world --- Democracy, champagne, and "the menage a trois" --- anybody else got that beat?!

Back on topic for one last post....

Several years ago, a bunch of us were down at PPIR near Colorado Springs, and Roland took me for a few "hot laps" in his F40-(whatever-you-want-to-call-it). And, I'll say this much --- THE MAN KNOWS HOW TO DRIVE.

 

Norwegian, French and English, my wife is Russian/Spanish, we have all American kids

 

Belgian too. Born in Namur, raised in Charleroi...

What part of Belgium was your family from?

 

Small world!

The family had it's business concerns based in Antwerp, but most of us (including myself) were raised in La Louviere --- not too far from you We also had a group of cousins with a country estate near Couvin, in the Chimay region --- too bad I wasn't old enough to drink beer back then