308 Fiat Starter Disaster

The cables come from the battery and go to the alternator. You should look at the wiring diagram in the manual. If you can somehow get the starter out by possibly removing the front header then its not that big a deal. I would go with a gear reduction motor, that's what I am using and I like it.
Its not that difficult to get the cables back into the rubber hose. The most difficult part is to get the starter out. I would remove everything out of the wheelwells in order to get to the headers and then loosen as much as necessary. If your heatshields are not on the headers then it should be easier.
From my experience all it takes is patience and a good strategy, knowing exactly how everything works beforehand so that you won't have to do the job twice.

Good luck,
Helmut

 

I've just done the job , , hope this helps

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284103

 

In answer to your #3 request: Wire gauges and colors are all given in the diagrams. I just pulled a quick/dirty drawing of the starter circuit - the cryptic Cu10 N symbol means a black copper wire with cross sectional area of 10mm. I can lookup the gauge tomorrow for you. (it's 2am now)

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http://www.FerrariDiagrams.com
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The numbers are the effective cross-sectional area of the wire conductor in square millimeters (using the euro notation where the decimal point is a comma).

Convert the area to a diameter dimension:

diameter = sqrt((4/pi)*area)

then you can look up the near-equivalent AWG size in a typical diameter-based chart.

For example:

2,5 mm^2 area = 1.784 mm diameter = .0702" diameter = slightly smaller than 13 A.W.G. (so 13 AWG would be best, but you'll never find it ; 12 AWG is a bit oversized, but very safe; 14 AWG is a little under-sized)

 

OK, the factory 1980 gtbi drawing above is in obvious error which I only now caught. Values in other 308 Owner's Manual drawings are - black cable to the battery is 35mm² and other black and red are 10mm². When I saw 35mm red, I was thinking 3,5mm which I know is about 10ga, but no...it's a full 35mm black to the battery.

Use the last and first column to convert mm² to AWG gauge, rounding up. Chart found at:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html
You will probably NOT need to change the heavy awg 2 gauge black battery cable. But the red wire to the relay panel and black wire to the alternator convert to awg 7 which you will NOT find so go with awg 6. If you have to buy wire, I'd suggest using a piece of the red for the alternator as well instead of buying black.

When you come to soldering the heavy wires, you may need to judiciously use a propane torch and definitely do not use acid core solder but resin core only.
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just replaced my solenoid. i payed $25 dollars to the local starter/altenator shop for the bosch part. it took me, litterally, about ten minutes to remove the starter from the car. i've a 85qv. it took longer to jack the car up and get the stands in place. basically once the car is in the air and the battery is disconnected remove the drivers side wheel, drop the wheel liner. this exposes the heads of the three bolts that hold the starter. they can be accessed directly from there using the correct length extensions. i loosened each bolt then tapped them to free the starter from the block. once the bolts are removed you can rotate the starter to gain access to the wire connections from under the car. the starter can then be extricated from the wheel well. my car has the heat shield on the front header but it wasn't any hinderance once the bolts are out you can drop the starter enough to get to the cable connections. i had read some threads on this procedure and went in with some trepidations. i was surprised when things went so easy.

 

Soldering the big battery cable about the size of your little finger can be daunting, especially if it is bare untinned copper. Soldering a copper wire into a copper connector directly can require too much heat for too long a time resulting in the insulation melting back. Especially with connectors which are heavy walled. It is paramount to have recently soldered surfaces on both wire and connector before joining them. Copper and solder both oxidize enough in a few days resulting and that surface layer must be removed before the surfaces will be properly joined without excessive heat.

So, you need to solder or 'tin' both wire and connector before putting them together. Clean the oxide from the connectors inner surface with sandpaper. Tin the wire on all sides, placing heat at the end of the wire and adding solder back inward. Know that molten solder flows TOWARDS the heat. A common mistake is melting the solder on the iron and expecting it to flow into the wire on it's own. Doing this getting started is ok but for the large part, you can't 'push' molten solder, you 'pull' it so to speak. When finished, if the tinned wire is a bit too large to fit into the connector, you can 'work' it some with the heat or even file it round again soas to fit.

Properly pre-tinned, when you put the wire into the connector, a minimum of heat will then be required to reflow the newly soldered surfaces. You will now remount the connector so it doesn't flop around. Be careful that whatever you use to 'fix' it in place doesn't remove much heat. I.e. avoid mounting in a large vice as oppose to putting a couple of nails through the hole into a block of wood so the heat will stay with the connector, not be drawn away.

Finally, you can become overly eager when you finish and remove the heat but it could take a minute for the solder to become hard, so careful to avoid any movement of the wire and connector while the solder is cooling or you may get a bad joint. You can understand why properly fixing it from moving is important. Have a can of water and wet cloth handy and don't burn your fingers by touching the connector too soon.

Soldering isn't difficult but comes with experience. Remember when moving your heat source around, solder flows TOWARD the heat. Doing a test run might be in order. I've made my own 30' RV jumper cables by soldering double ought copper wire to large connectors using a propane torch and recall the process took time, but is rewarding.

Pick up a length of heat shrink tubing, probably 1/2" dia will do, and put a 3" length on the wire BEFORE soldering the wire onto the connector and push it some distance out of the way. To finish, a heat gun on the shrink tube will cover any insulation which has suffered overheating and will give you a professional looking job.

 

A torch will be your friend for that job.
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I'm +1 on switching to the gear reduction starter. I installed one in my '78 308 and it worked beautifully, not to mention that it weighs about 9 lbs vs. the 25+ lbs. of the "stock" starter motor and solenoid. That makes it much easier to handle, it is much smaller and fits in nicely. Plus, it cranks the engine over much better than the stock starter.

 

A Fiat starter motor? Do you mean it is off of a Fiat car? (non-original) Never heard of a starter motor made by Fiat.

 

Stock starter weighs 13lbs.weighed it while it was out for the engine rebuild. Just sayin.

 

Interesting.... thought it might be Magnetti Marelli (sp?)

 

LOL ..... Ferrari's don't break ... they just have a self designating maintenance schedule