Does the 993 ride better than the 964 ?
Totally subjective.........the 993 has a different rear suspension system.........a tighter steering box ratio.......is slightly heavier and wider.......and has a more powerful engine with an extra gear. I like the overall "feel" of the way the 964 drives better. Not that the 993 is bad in any way......if you had never experienced a 964 you'd think you had died and gone to heaven in the 993.
I do not think you can go wrong with a nice 964 or a nice 993. In my area, the 964 is 25% cheaper. I'd buy the nicest car that I could find. There are plenty low-mileage cars of both models FS. I wouldn't even go look at one that didn't have paperwork and receipts of proper maintenance. P/S The 993 has hydraulic valves if you don't like adjusting the mechanical valves every ~7000 miles. The 993 is also more complicated throughout its engineering.
993 VarioRam or not (the '95 model)? Is the difference perceptible to the average driver (me). More trouble down the line maintenance wise? Seems more complicated with more parts to go wonky or am I worrying too much about nothing?
Also........are Non -VarioRams easier to chip ? Is chipping a good idea for better performance ? Any better MPG or is it for a power increase alone (or does it really do anything? )
Varioram was basically a redesigned intake manifold. It resulted in a slight Hp increase and (much more noticeable) was a 20% increase in mid-range torque. I've never changed the chip in any car so I have no idea. The 993 is known for its short clutch life, rear glass breakage, carbon buildup in the heads (requires engine removal), and electrical problems (in the wiring harness). It is also the fastest air-cooled 911. The brakes are excellent. The market for used 993s was very strong until recently (the 993 is now ~$10K cheaper- for a nice one with paperwork).
964 and earlier 911 valve adjustment is performed every 30,000 miles (48,000 KMS) as per the service booklet. Varioram cars have the problem Vintage Racer mentioned as they are OBDII compliant (1995's are not) and therefore have "secondary air injectors". There is a SAI valve at the back of and on top of the engine, that eventually clogs up and you get carbon build up in the heads and various ports. You have to remove the engine to change the valve, which sometimes solves the check engine light problem, but in most cases you have to remove the heads to properly clean them, and at that time, you might as well do a valve job, which is another nagging and known 993 issue. That costs $5K or more (the once you're in there syndrome)........now there is a "quick fix" found online involving using many bottles of Chevron Techron and a lot of manual labor to soak the heads and clean them out while in situ. I did it once, it worked, but the bill was half of the cost of a full valve job, which you are probably going to need to do anyways, and you do not get them 100% properly clean with this quick fix method. In order to improve the high RPM operation of the engine over the 964, Porsche shortened the size of the valve stems and therefore you have shorter valve guides. Unfortunately, they gall much easier (wear at the outer edges) due to the shorter length and higher RPM usage........ergo in my experience, at around 75-100,000 KM you need a valve job. This mileage range is usually when the SAI system fails as well. You change chips is 964's ($3-400).......in 993's you have to send the ECU out for reprogramming ($995 USD as of 2008).......I recommend going to FVD for that or pretty much anything Porsche related. I've spent well over 6 figures with this company over the years and they are one of the best. http://www.fvd.de/us/en/Porsche-0/993-12-22/-/-/item/item_details/VID_14883396-VCD_45422571-gid_35-sort_4-display_50-item_FVD99361870/ENGINE-Tuning-Chip-Motronic-DME-FVD99361870-Software-DME-993-96-98-USA-M5.2-%2893-Octane-USA%29.html Personally, I never felt a difference in power between the 1995 and later cars, although there is one on paper. And again, that is totally subjective as well. I'd try and buy a 1995 993 if I could, before I went to a 1996 or later 993, just because it does not have the SAI system required by OBDII. Isobel....you have a PM.
So what's the consensus on 3.2 carrera vs 964? I am thinking about selling the 951 and getting a 911. I have always wanted one. Coupe.
To me personally, the biggest differences are the suspension and ride quality of the 964 versus the previous 911......the much improved HP and torque.......and finally, the cleaner look of the 964 body and the vastly improved interior AC and climate control. It is truly a daily driver real world car, whereas IMHO, the older 911 is not as good in these areas. You have to drive them back to back to decide for yourself. They are all good, and it will come down to what feel you like, what look you like, how much you want to spend, and what you intend to do with the car. When the cars were newer (0-10 years old) the older 911 had fewer teething problems than the 964.......now that they are a lot older, the 964 is no different IMHO, as the known issues have all been pretty much identified and sorted out by now on every car out there.
Well, I want to spend about 15-17k, less if I can. It will be a somewhat daily. I want a ducktail and a fun ride, lol. Something I can tinker with.
Don't get a 964 then....go with an earlier 911....a 1978-83 911 SC preferably. It has far fewer electronics than the 3.2 Carrera, is marginally lighter, and usually comes equipped with fewer options. You can get an excellent example for that kind of coin, or maybe less, if you are patient and willing to travel. IMHO with that money you also get an average, but higher mileage 911 Carrera 3.2 or a totally ratted out 964. There is nothing wrong with a higher mileage 911 Carrera 3.2........but you do not want a ratted out 964 unless you are building a race car. My advice to any 911 buyer is to go for good mechanical condition over cosmetics ALL THE TIME and buy the best car you can find for the maximum price you are willing to pay. At the $15K initial price point, a car later found to be in bad mechanical condition will kill you, and put you 100% upside down in a heartbeat. Cosmetics on the other hand are easily identifiable at the get go, easy to accurately estimate repairs for, and usually not a problem on the zinc plated (1976 +) cars.
I definitely agree on that. I'm not so big on cosmetics, they are usually the cheapest thing to fix in the big picture. I really would like the extra power of the 3.2 though. I'm not a big one on caring about mileage as long as service records are there. I bought my BoxterS with 88k on it and my 944t with 110k on it. But both had records back over 7 years. On the 944t I have the original bill of sale from '87.
I agree. But when you have this budget; you'll end up with a car of a much lesser value in this category. It will pay you great dividends, going forward, to just buy the nicest car that you can find for a little more money.
Drive them both first, and then revisit that statement. You may, or may not, find the paper HP difference to be almost unnoticeable.
Dear Porsche FAQ. Have people REALLY asked the difference between an air-cooled, and water-cooled Porsches? I just cant imagine trying to answer that with a straight face. (btw: air-cooled is the meaning of life.) As far as buying a classic, or pre-owned, mechanical condition is far more important than cosmetic condition.
I tend to pass over ads whenever I read the 964/993 in question is AWD. Am I correct in thinking I should stay away from C4s due to their added weight and maintenance costs ?
Are you going to drive it year round (rain, snow, etc) ? Are you going to drive it on the track a lot (more than 1-2 times a year) ? Is safety a large factor in the purchase ? There is no expensive maintenance cost associated with either generation of all wheel drive system, whether it be the more sophisticated and better center and front differential arrangement of the 959/964 or the cheaper and less effective viscous coupling of the 993/996/997.........however, here is a "significant" repair cost for major component failure that is associated with each. On the early cars you change the diff fluid every 2 years @ $100........on the later cars you do nothing. The early cars rarely if ever have a diff failure (haven't seen one in 20+ years) unless they were tracked regularly and hard, and/or, the fluid was never changed in the diffs. The viscous coupling on the later cars fails regularly somewhere before 160,000 KMS in my experience (seen more than 5 do this). The extra weight (150 or so pounds) isn't noticeable during the drive, but the changes in handling characteristics are evident.
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but can someone recommend a place for a PPI in Los Angeles? I'm on the lookout for a 964, might have found one and now need to get a PPI done. Thanks!
fenivision..... McKenna Porsche in Norwalk........I used them about 6+ times over the years......... Blackbird007.... www.rsamerica.net has all you want and more........
"Don't get a 964 then....go with an earlier 911....a 1978-83 911 SC preferably. It has far fewer electronics than the 3.2 Carrera, is marginally lighter, and usually comes equipped with fewer options. You can get an excellent example for that kind of coin, or maybe less, if you are patient and willing to travel. IMHO with that money you also get an average, but higher mileage 911 Carrera 3.2 or a totally ratted out 964. There is nothing wrong with a higher mileage 911 Carrera 3.2........but you do not want a ratted out 964 unless you are building a race car." KDS did not mention that the ethanol fuels of today rusts out the CIS fuel system which are not as tolerant as the more modern DME system in the later Carrera 3.2's onward. The fuel distributor of the SC's are over $1000 new and no longer available so rebuilt ones are still about $600. The only electronic components in the 3.2 are mostly F.I. related pre-OBD and have O2 sensors, crank position sensors, and other fairly reliable fuel injection Bosch system components.....not like today's electronic aids of PASM, PSM, ABS, etc where disconnecting the battery will cause myriads of electronic codes to be thrown and PIWIS-II (costing $20,000 for this service tool) to be consulted to remedy. Great thread by the way and very thorough in info.
A lot of the CIS systems are obviously older too and some are starting to have problems just due to age and wear..........gotta be careful as part are getting harder to come by and pricey. No problems with ethanol gas up here because it is only a 10-15% mixture in a few places. Most don't have it, unlike the US where it is predominant.
If your in the Market for a 911 or Boxter 1998-2008 I suggest you purchase this months Excellence magazine. In summation all Boxters and 911 motors 98-08 may experience engine and RMS failures, with exception of GT3 and Turbo. Fixes are available for the Interm shaft bearing and RMS but they are not cheap. Funny how excellence magazine does not state they stand corrected on misinformation, for the past 10 they mentioned only 98-99 models have the issue now its by chance flip a coin heads or tails.
