coming soon ! I am assuming you mean through the bumper? ....... the biggest benefit is the awesome look !!! Second it was decided to utilize the higher location to help evacuate engine compartment heat Yeah, it took a while ......... Bob was very patient .......... but being a completely new design, it involved a bit of new tooling and fixture changes. A large amount of time was spent planning the overall exhaust configuration to match his needs, as well as making sure it would be 'installable' without major drama. The 'twin bypass' feature was required for maximum flow capacity and to keep the paths separate until they met in the muffler. This was essential in creating the 'sound' Bob wanted, modest idle/cruise decibel levels and a slightly dampened F1 howl ...........
One billion percent WRONG. The rear sub-structure has openings only inline with the cradle...taillight areas are solid except for mounting holes for tail lights(which have rubber gaskets to make an air tight seal). The whole compartment airflow design is a compromise between what is needed when car is not moving and what is aerodynamically effecient when the car is at speed. The 355 engine compartment airflow at rest and at speed is as different as day and night. This is very complex and is something I'm not going to get into on this forum. However you can both calculate and physically measure the radiant heat flow at rest and the pressure changes and air flow at speed. There has already been some testing on airflow on a 355 at speed with some modifications which properly cools key components effecting power output. Dave Helms should have a patent on these mods. You are more than welcome to do your own research. Alot can be learned by the old school method of putting wind tabs on the vehicle and following it with a camcorder......you'd be surprised at what you see. The CH grille is better than a solid panel.....but it is also has asthetics involved in its design so you can't see the sub-structure. Goths grill puts function over asthetics....even though to me it is also nice looking.
Thanks enginefxr !! I am curious to see what the dyno numbers will be also, as much emphasis as I put into the sound ....... I put slightly more into the flow velocity and capacity ....... !!!
A lot of aggressive comments being posted here. Goth is manufacturing and marketing his own muffler and grill. I have no issue with this and commend this. However, theres lots of aftermarket exhausts available for street use that do nothing more than make noise (and can actually reduce hp or just move the hp up the graph to an unusable area....for street use). Theres also lots of street aftermarket body parts whose only purpose is to look cool and aerodynamics be d--'d. In the end most of these aftermarket parts end up being tossed (when they fail to live up to the hype) & eventually the stock components go back on. 1) I would like to see a dyno graph on the Goth muffler but the car must be road legal (emission legal) - have catalytic converters installed-. 2) I would also like to see thermal scans of the top and bottom of the exhaust bay area again,only if the car has cats installed. Anyone can remove the 4 cats and install test pipes and cool down the engine bay but it is illegal for road use. If the guy with the Hyundai can be emission legal then why should'nt the ferrari owner be......? So enough talk......lets wait to see some results.
No worries, I made that grill for myself a long time ago and that was the 'only' one ....... and it worked great !!! These threads are to illustrate 'special' projects to meet 'specific requirements'. This is not to market anything ...... as these exhaust projects are a lot of work and I do them in my spare time to see what is possible. The first 355 exhaust I made (for myself), deleted the bypass valve and made over 18 RWHP comapred to stock muffler ......... with OBDII cats and no CEL lights !! Here is the thread and dyno sheets are posted: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240490&highlight=history Never to be satisfied, I knew there was definitely more HP to be had with twin valves on the 5.2. So the quest for what IMO would be the best 'twin valve' I could make began. This new 'twin valve' version would surpass that 18 RWHP number and still retain that F1 sound !! Around that time my elderly Father fell very ill, I missed a ton of work and to my detriment I unintentionally put off previous commitments to pursue that 5.2 twin valve system for a very nice person. Time went by with my Father getting a little better .... I was still spent from all the drama ........ then Bob inquiered about something special for his 2.7 355 ........ his 'must haves' included modest sound decibels, maximum HP gains, F1 sound and special tip location .......... those were exhaust virtues I shared as well!! However a unique tip location was something he wanted, (so we worked together to get to this final configuration) ....... so there was the challenge (I love challenges!!) ......... and an opportunity to pursue the 'ultimate' 355 twin valve system !!! This system on this thread is that result for the 2.7 355 ............. There are other projects in the works (intake, new heatshield and doorsills) ........ but my next 'twin valve' system 'project' will be for a nero 5.2 355 ........ which happens to be mine ........... !!!
Very cool. I do recall that project (utilized 360 headers to eliminate the bypass pipe and valve) but I think it was described as exceptionally loud. I have built many exhausts from scratch and heat and sound are the trade offs that are the toughest to address. An overly loud exhaust may be fun for a short while, but shortly it grates on you and your neighbors. Many times I have re-engineered or built in sound deadners to try and make the exhaust street sociable....and if this did'nt work, then reverted to the original system. This is why, for street use, I am interested in the heat, sound and Hp results. p.s. I have a stock 355 muffler and my next project is to cut off the 4 chrome factory exhaust pipes /convert it to 'bolt on tips' (allow installation of the muffler with out removing the bumper- same as my tubi) and modify the internals for a more thoatier sound. We'll see how that goes.
The 355 goth muff was/is no louder than my 348 version, however, it does scream at higher pithc due to the car's 1000 rpm greater limit. It used Challenge headers which goth converted to "legal" use with CA emissions through the addition of gas injector pipes - was really cool looking and might even had passed inspection, but he removed the system before the "test" smog recert. I really wanted to see the results of the smog test too since my version is barely legal, but does pass OBD I.
My first 355 exhaust was not loud especially compared to other aftermarket systems, I would estimate its sound level to my old capristo level 1. Which is just about where I wanted it. One can get an idea of the tone during the 'idle' portion of the video. However after many many years of designing performance systems for many good people ...... I know ....... noise levels and flow are separate and independent ........... the proverbial 'trade off' is absolutely NOT the rule ................ Bob wanted a modest sound level with maximum flow ....... and that goal was certainly accomplished with this twin valve system ........... when Bob gets some time in the next several days to post vids of his new system ....... it will show great RWHP and low noise levels together are truly possible .............. was it easy to do?? no ................. is it repeatable?? absolutely!!! ............ +355 ............ I needed to get started on the 'twin valve' 5.2 version ...........
Nothing is legal even if it passes the sniff test unless you have an EO# for kali which is hard to get. However, most smog guys don't know enough about ferraris to catch the mistake. Also, most techs will not ask because they want to act like they know more than you. A certain local guy got his 348C loud tube exhaust past smog and the cops by showing them the ferrari label on the pipes play dumb and said that's the way some 348's came from the factory. I have had techs mistake the A/C compressor for a missing smog pump on a 308. Test only guys are smarter and are neater. They are best to go to when you know your car will pass. I use these guys 99% of the time and always use them 100% if I'm buying a car. Regular smog guys are best to use if you are marginal or have altered equipment because their own errors are more likely to result in a pass. Smog refs are great to go to if you got a ferrari that you just can't get the obd2 drive cycle to set but the sniff test is a pass and all the equipment is there. Also the ref is the cheapest way to get a smog cert.
Look up the rules FBB ...... OBDI like Vince's 348 is 100% legal, sniff and visual. The muffler does not need EO # because it is cat back and the cats do have EO #s ............. OBDII can also use aftermarket cats and exhaust ........... and in CA if they were 'installed' before Jan of this year (which mine were) they are ok too ...... Lets keep this thread about the new system, sound and HP gains ......... if anyone wants to further discuss challenge grills, open area and smog rules .......... it can be done on another thread!! ....
Isn't possible to make a 430 scud type of diffuser for the 355. I know I would be very interested if it was done right(tasteful without looking like a ricer). Can someone photoshop that?
What would be the point? What would you have with no wind tunnel testing? An aerodynamic mess. Many hours were spent on the underbelly of the 355 in the wind tunnel to make it what it was. Yes, the 430 has superior aerodynamics to the 355 but it's a "whole package" concept. If something like that were manufactured and installed I think by definition it might be Ricer (an unoriginal part, just for looks that would screw up the aerodynamics). And... while I think the rear end of a 430 looks more butch and more "racer" I certainly don't find it in any way more tasteful that that of a 355 (but that's just an opinion of course). Edit: oops......... just read Goth's last post about wanting to keep this thread on topic! (his new exhaust).
Sorry this thread gets distracted but I had to respond ...... The 430 and 360 have more and better underbody panels than the 355. The 'extent' of any enhancements would ultimately be up to the owner. The 355 has the entire underside of the motor and trans exposed, which presents a challenge. Though improving modestly on the 355s underside is not a huge task but it would have physical limits due to the metal frame work under there. Other 'limits' would be dependent on taste and of course function . In the future I will be making enhanced diffusers and front wind splitters, the shapes will be determined by a few motives, enhanced looks, maintaining or improving cooling and ultimately, 'shaped' by what my (yet to be made) scale wind tunnel says ...... IMO what Bob and I settled on (the red 355 pic).... looks fantastic and fits the style and period of the 355 . I have attached a pic of some f-car undersides and some info from this site: http://www2.mech.kth.se/courses/5C1211/KTH2Total.pdf Here are some of their numbers: Numbers are Lift @ speed 300Km/h or 186 MPH 348 ....... +142Kg or 313Lbs 355 ....... - 37Kg or 82 Lbs 360 ....... - 179Kg or 395Lbs This site is also good reading (I was surprised to see some of those illiustrations were drawn by a personal friend! I recognized them from his portfolio ), enjoy: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.imps4ever.info/tech/aero/tech_pic_aero_flatbottom.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.imps4ever.info/tech/aero/tech_aero.htm&usg=__PMsSNvp38p2oljK82uzqdcXV4jw=&h=158&w=200&sz=8&hl=en&start=6&tbnid=_KsBjPqULtwobM:&tbnh=82&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dferrari%2Bunderside%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1 Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I see, I just thought it would be interesting. I would at least like to see it on photoshop. I am sure if it looked good there would be way to have the airflow work.
