550 or 575 That is the question???

First post:
Been lurking for a while but decided to join as I am getting a bit more active in my search for the "Right" car.

I currently own a 2009 Corvette Z06 with some minor modifications. It is not my daily driver and I have put less than 3000 miles on it. I like to take short to moderate length roadtrips in it with my wife. We may take a longer trip every couple of years or so. So I prefer a GT type car.

First I am trying to decide to look for a 550 or a 575. I love the look of the 550 but like the wheels, brakes and added power of the 575. I don't like the active suspension of the 575 vs. the 550. I had a Corvette with a similiar system and it was expensive to repair and didn't handle all that great without some modifications. Can the system be replaced with conventional shocks or moddified or is it really that good?

I know that the 550 will need the 575's motor mounts and wheels are to the owners taste and the stock wheels can always be put back when it is time to move on.

I would prefer a manual transmission but I am completely unfamilair with F1 transmission and don't know if that would change my mind. My wife will want to drive the car and is not that much of a manual fan and I think the gated shifter on the Ferrari is going to drive her nuts not to mention she could damage the transmission. Does the F1 have an automatic or hands off mode? I guess she could learn to live with the gates.

What is the cause of the sticky buttons and switches and why is stickynomore's fix so expensive.

What is the fix for the wavy, bubbled or shrinking of leather on the dash that I have seen on some cars? Expense?

I have been told that I should have a slush fund of about $5,000 above the price of the car to fix things that come up and should have a healthy maintenance fund for futures repairs. I know the 550 has a very reliable reputation does the 575 as well?

What else am I missing?

 

Michael- Welcome to the forum. Let me go through some details for you.

First, the brakes on the 550 and 575M are identical except for one piston diameter on the rear brakes. Both 330x32 F and 310x28 R and both with nearly identical four piston Brembo calipers.

Second, both 550 and 575M have adjustable suspension/shocks (active suspension), but the 550 has Bilstein shocks and the actuators and shocks have caused major problems. Your Corvette had Bilstein shocks and the same actuators as the 550. I had five Z06 Corvettes. The shocks and actuators on the 575M are bulletproof Mannesmann-Sachs designs which have caused virtually no problems, so this is a big plus for the 575M.

F1 transmissions do have an automatic mode for your wife and you can turn it off and shift using the paddles. Clutch wear is pretty much identical in either mode according to the pros. Mine has F1 and I really like it, even though I have never used the Auto mode.

My 2004 575M has no sticky parts. Others have. Depends on the car and how they were cleaned, I guess. Robbie's prices are very fair for the work involved. He has done Porsche parts for me and they came out perfect.

Only fix for leather problems is to replace it. The dash is ~$2500-4500 and mine was just done for ~$2500. More when you do not live in the hinterlands.

The 575M is at least as reliable as the 550 and all the issues on the 550 were fixed with the 575. The TPMS system has caused people problems, mainly with sensor batteries going flat at 4-5 years. Replacement costs $400-1200 depending on whether you use generic Beru or Ferrari marked sensors. Or you can turn it off.

You will not notice much power difference between the two cars. There is about 1 second difference in 0-100 time, a good portion of that attributable to the quicker shifting of the F1 transmission. Both are very strong, about like a C5 Z06 in acceleration and slower than a C6 Z06. MT got 12.25 secs@118 mph in a comparison test on an F1 575M.

Good luck on finding a nice 550 or 575M. Both are excellent cars.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I got a 550 and 04 C5Z06 that was a streetcar that I turned into a dedicated racecar and now run SCCA T1 in it. I think if you like the vette platform you will like the 550/75 platform. They are similar and have similar balance. You will like the ferrari for it's brutal smoothness vs the harshness of the vette transverse leaf spring corvette hop kind of ride. There is nothing quite like the corvette hop or the ferrari feel. I have found similar suspension tweeks that work for the vette work for the 550 like the over understeer balance treatment. Both have similar torquetube type layout. I think both benefit from square tire set-up vs factory at least in my hands because I do not like understeering "safe handling" cars. I like neutral but power on throttlesteer. My previous 3 ferraris were midengine. If you want something a little more different in the feel try a 360. I would not go any lower than a 360 and even that is pushing it because they are too slow from where you are coming from. The C6Z is quite a package and very hard to beat at any price. I think there are a few 575 3 pedal cars but sure that most are F1 cars. Even with all my experience as a pretty advanced diy'er I stay away from F1 cars until we consumers have access to the diagnostic/electronic equipment to fix them. They are extremely expensive to repair and these boards are replete with help wanted posts for advice when their F1 leaves them stranded. But there is nothing like the F1 shifter when it is working well and you are on the go fast pedal.

 

FBB- Interestingly, there have not been that many problems with the 575M F1 unit. We started with a fourth generation system like that installed in the 360 CS and during production there were four generations of F1 gear as the system was continuously evolved. There were isolated problems noted with the 5-6 gear bearing in both the 550 and 575M, but have not heard of one recently. One of the problems noted with the early F1 systems was a 30 amp relay that overheated and failed. Most 575Ms have a 50 amp relay which fixed the problem.

With F1 it is always a good idea to have clutch wear checked with an SD2/3 at annual service time. Otherwise it is possible for the clutch to wear out and the F1 system will one day refuse to play at all.

Your comments are spot on about handling and similarities to the Maranellos. I traded a 2008 Z06 towards my 575M and am exceedingly happy with the result.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Main differences between 550 and 575 are transmissions and price. There are no 550s with F-1. There are very few 575s with a stick. 575s go for a higher price than a 550 because they are newer, generally have fewer miles, less wear and are a pretty much a better car because they are the improved version of the 550. Once you have decided on a budget and transmission preference, find the best example that suits your needs. I looked for 18 months. Enjoy your journey.

 

There is no doubt the newest versions of F1 are better. They just still scare the heck out of me. That is my personal bias. Still we see SD3 clutch wear at crazy numbers like 50% left w/ 12,000 miles on cars etc. You can search posts (not sure on F1 version) but numbers like this are not out of line. Then you got a $3000+ clutch job? Not sure on cost since I do these myself. In a ferrari I have changed many 3 pedel clutches but have never worn one out myself. Cheapest ferrari clutch I ever did was less than $100 bucks on my twin disc 348 racecar! Even my home made clutch I raced and never destroyed. How are people destroying F clutches in such short times? At this time the diy'er must buy a 25K tool to set the PIS on the F1. There are others that claim to do it for less. The Leonardo? The new durtech you guys are working on? When those reasonably priced diagnostic tools are online then I'll take a look at F1 again. But for me I won't buy anything I can't fix. So for me that means no F1. But I am tempted. F1 is worth 1-2 seconds on the track for me with no other change in my skill.

 

FBB- I hear you. I have been driving cars with clutches since 1962 or so and have never worn out a clutch. I drive my F1 just as if it were a manual transmission, so we shall see how long it lasts.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

I have an 09 GTR and love the transmission in that. I use it in manual mode 95% of the time except when I'm drinking coffee. I bought a 6 speed 575 because the F1 upshift gave me whiplash, much like the SMG I tried in an M5. It would drive me nuts. My Z06 of course is a 6 speed as is the 997. Great cupholders in those cars, btw.

 

I might be speaking out of turn here, but I'm going to wager that repairing/replacing a failed F1 tranny in a 575 is going to be some tall money -- considerably taller than $3k. I've heard numbers as high as $12k, which makes a $2-3k repair on a standard gated clutch a lot easier to swallow for working stiffs like me whose first names are not Sheikh.

Gents, does this sound correct?

ketel

 

Definitely have to drive both if you are undecided. I know I will get sideways looks, but I have a 355 F1 that I like but I really did not like the F1 in the 575. However, to me a 6-speed would be a hard car to beat at any price. Even with its problems, the 550 is one of the most reliable Ferraris ever made (none of it seems troublesome to a 355 owner ) It's just a great all around package.

 

No sideways looks from me, that's exactly what happened to me. Ten years with a 355 F1, drove a 575 F1 and didn't even finish the test drive. (F of SF) handed me the keys and said bring it back in a half hour or so.

I bought a 550 instead and absolutely love it, and I could have bought a 575 for close to the same price at that time.

Still have the 355 though.

 

If you ride with me in my F1 575M, you cannot tell the difference between it and a manual transmission except for speed on upshifts if I use Sport, which I seldom do. With practice, shifts are seamless. Driving a low torque V8 with F1, especially one with no digital throttle like a 355, is different from a high torque V12. Having driven manual transmission cars for nearly 40 years, I really enjoy the F1 in the 575M and drive it pretty much the same way I did manual shifter cars.

So for all of you who dislike F1 in the 575M, I have to say I completely disagree with you. F1 and the high torque V12 are an excellent match. If you did not drive one long enough to learn how to do it properly, I can understand why you would not like it. For those of us who have driven them for years, they work great.

Ketel- The 575 three pedal and F1 cars both have exactly the same transmission and clutch except for the throw-out bearing and a clutch position sensor for the F1 shifter mechanism. On the 575M there have been very few problems with the F1 shifter mechanism. I have done searches and there just are not too many. Since the exact same clutch is used, the only thing different is when you change a clutch, you need an SD2 or equivalent to set point of initial slippage. If the F1 hydraulic system ever needs bleeding, you need an SD2 for that, too, but they seldom do. Not for bleeding the clutch, just for bleeding the F1 hydraulic lines. Plus you need to keep an eye on clutch wear so the car does not strand you. On the manual shifter cars, you get a hint because clutch pedal effort goes way up as the linkage goes non-optimal. On the F1, 900 psi of hydraulic pressure does not care, so periodic SD2 checks of clutch wear are advisable. The good news is that there is a way to read clutch wear, which you cannot do on the three pedal cars.

So for all the F1 naysayers, all I can say is I like mine and something like 90% of cars were ordered with F1, so a bunch of other owners do, too. Just another set of skills to learn.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry - This seems to make sense to me but I only brought up that earlier question because, anecdotally, I have heard on numerous occasions that the cost of working on an F1 tranny is considerably more expensive that the same relative work on a standard manual. If what you are saying (although you did not directly address it) is that repair costs on F1 and standard manuals run about the same, then -- as Ricky Ricardo would say -- there are people out there with a lot of 'splainin to do.

ketel

 

Ketel- For whatever reason, the F1 system in the 360 seems to have had more problems than the 575M, maybe because of location and heat, maybe because there are probably 12,000 F1 360s and 1500-1600 F1 575Ms. Repairing F1 componentry can be expensive if done by a dealer, but as technicians get more experience with the system, they are learning how to fix them for less money if problems occur. My technicians did some work on leaking F1 hydraulic lines on a 360 and the OEM lines are horribly expensive. But a company making very high pressure hydraulic lines was able to repair the lines for a fraction of the cost of OEM parts, and they could have reproduced them for ~1/10th the price of new lines. The 30 amp relay problems are solved on the 575M (50 amp relay) and the much later generation ECUs just have not caused many, if any, problems. So the system has been pretty reliable. Plus the higher torque V12 does not require as much clutch slippage to get going as a 360, and that has helped, to. On my 7 liter Z06 Corvettes, you could let out the clutch with virtually no power and the car would just move out. The 575M has similar advantages.

Taz
Terry phillips

 

Taz, how do you mean driving style? Aren't the electronics doing the work?

 

Abe- By feathering the throttle on upshifts, you can smooth them out nearly completely in the lower gears. More when cold and going slowly and less when warm and in a hurry. Higher gears not as important. And yes, I know the digital throttle reduces the throttle on upshifts.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Totally irrelevant to this thread, but damn, FBB....your knowledge of the intricacies of cars simply astounds me. I wish you lived nearby--I would definitely be supplying you with delicious eats and an endless supply of Portland's finest beer when I had a problem.

 

Ahh...I'm much more impressive on the internet...but Portland's finest does sound nice.

 

Clutch and tranny are two different things.....clutch on an F1 also runs about $3-4k, unless it also needs the throwout bearing....then you're looking at about $5-6k (according to what I have been told).
Tranny (i.e. gearbox) on either one is NOT going to be cheap. Doubtful that it will ever need to be replaced though.

To the OP....get a 575 6spd. One big difference that I don't think anyone's mentioned is interior. The 575 has a beautifully-appointed interior....the 550 is reminiscent of '80s Ferraris.

 

Not too shabby though in my opinion.
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The nice thing about this debate is that no one is really wrong - just different. I'd agree that the 550 interior (in good nick) is more reminiscent of famed GT Ferraris of old from the '60s (quilted rear shelf, soft curves, etc) to the '90s (steering wheel, etc); while the 575 incorporates design elements more in keeping with GT cars of this millenium. Both beautiful, just figure out what moves you.
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And then it is even possible to update a 575M's interior to look mid 2000s.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the advice. For me the technology of the F1 system is appealing however I do prefer to work on the car myself. None of my Corvettes see an outside shop. For warranty items I have an excellent working relationship with a dealer that will provide me the parts and then I will perform the repair myself. My garage looks like a surgical suite except with tool carts and a lift. It is so clean that I have built engines and painted cars in my garage. So is the 550/575 workable for the experienced home mechanic? I like to do it myself but I will not buy a car that I am forced to cough up huge chunks of coin for. The C5/C6 clutch jobs run $1500+. I can do it in my garage in about 4-6 hours for just the cost of the clutch and slave cylinder. What is so special about a Ferrari clutch that is costs $3k+. Quite a few fellow Corvette enthusiasts bring their cars to me to either diagnose an issue or for me to help fix. Which I am always willing to do. Paying it forward comes in handy sometimes.

I have heard that the transmissions in either car are robust units. Kind of leaning towards the 575M Manual. I need to find an example of both the manual and the F1 in the 575M and drive it.

I am not concerned about track performance. It will be very unlikely that this car would see a track and if it did I doubt I would take it to its max. I have 98 C5 that makes my 09 Z look slow. I told the wife that I would leave the Z alone and continue with the C5 as my track car however I have found it impossible to not to tweak the Z and it begs to be on the track. I have a buyer for the C5 and the Z may take a trip to Katech. Although I loath to let a shop touch it I feel that Katech would not screw up my car.

I am not interested in a mid-engine car, the C5/C6 is technically a mid engine car as the engine is behind the front axle. I inherited my father's 355 in 1997 and I kept it for about 6 months. That thing was a significant PIA, it's only redeeming quality was that it was an absolute girl magnet which was nice as I was single at the time. The dealer, family friend, bought the car back from me.

 

Michael- Durametrics is working on a diagnostic tool for Ferraris similar to their tools for Porsches. Should be out in the next 12 montsh for the 550/575M. Ferraris are just cars, and basic maintenance is no different from other cars except more preventative servicing is called for compared to Corvettes. Tech data is readily available. Ferrari clutches are more expensive than Corvette clutches because there are way fewer of them and the parts are therefore expensive.

Taz
Terry Phillips