OK, Here's a survey question for you. Shop owners, car owners and observers: New 355 owner brings you his '97 (had it for five months) for a major service. Shop owner has pitched his absolute expertise and familiarity with every aspect of 355 maintenance. By the time the major is done, bill heads up close to $20k, as new headers are needed, and some random other stuff. Car comes back after 3 months in shop, few weeks later, thermostat goes. This is another several weeks and $3-4k. Car goes to bed for winter. Early spring, car goes out. Abut 400 miles since major, cam sprocket bolt works loose, valve damage. Improperly torqued during repairs. Shop owner argues, finally fixes after car owner agrees to split cost of parts. While there, all of a sudden new cats are needed too. (Odd that wasn't apparent when replacing headers or thermo). Car comes back. Now there are two chips in front hood, clumsily touched up, and the top isn't working. Shop owners ays nothing about chips (not noted in any tow driver's damage survey). F-Chatters suggest checking hydraulic oil. Sure enough, it's below MIN level. Top it up. As a shop owner, would you check the hydraulic oil level on a four-year major for a client routinely? As a car owner, would you expect an "expert" to check it as part of a $20k service? Or, would you say it's reasonable to expect an owner to whip out the tools and his handy F-chat guide and do his own lazyass self? My 10 cents says this is the hallmark of a lazy shop or one that really doesn't "know" 355s -- considering I learn here that this is an incredibly common issue, and one that needs to be checked regularly. Opinions????
I do my own service precisely to keep my cars from being in shops for 5+ months at a time, but that's not practical for everyone, I realize. Anyway, every shop wants to bill itself as being able to do lucrative work, figuring that "they've seen it all" so they can handle exotic car marques. But the reality is that most shops are parts replacers, not true servicers. If unbolting an old cat and then bolting on a new cat fixes a customer problem, then they look like heroes...but if the problem is whatever caused the old cat to go bad prematurely in the first place, then most shop are either going to guess at a solution or ignore it and hope that the customer doesn't know any better, either. A lot of this is just human nature, as there are very few craftsmen left profitable in our disposable society. Should a Ferrari shop check fluids including hydraulic fluids? Yes. Is the average shop going to bother checking non-standard fluids? No. If you are lucky, the average shop will check your oil level when the motor is hot, instead of getting the false "empty" reading when the motor is cold (and then overfilling the dry sump with new oil thinking that the motor is about to starve). Maybe a few shops will check your brake fluid, clutch fluid, and window wiper fluid levels. Most won't, even if they claim that they did. In any event, your well is poisoned, so to speak, by past events. Truly, they are never going to make you happy. That shop doesn't know how to treat a car, much less an exotic. Sure, they want your money, but now that they've figured out that they got in over their heads, they almost certainly want you gone from there. So, get your car out of there. Drive it. Enjoy it. Have someone else touch up the paint during the next routine service. Kill two birds with one stone...these cars spend too much time decorating lifts instead of highways as it is.
IIRC You never named that shop. You NEVER should have split the cost for the engine rebuild caused entirely by his failure to torque the cam sproket. He should have been out out of business then. In regards to the titled question...Not really...you allowed a known incompetent mechanic with a axe to grind to re-repair your car. Does it SUCK...yes. I sincerely hope there is nothing else wrong with the car now. My prayers are with you. JMHO
I think you're talking about the $21K service, which includes oil, hydraulic fluid etc. Seriously, I would be pretty upset. Actually $3k-$4K for a failed thermostat sounds kinda steep, unless there was collateral damage...
It really just sounds as though the mechanic who was responsible for the car's service was sloppy and rushed the work. Each time. It's possible the gentleman who owns the place knows Ferraris, but he has hired hands turning the wrenches. I'm not at all surprised that after a cam gear coming loose, a few other items were over looked. Sounds par for that course. Just out of personal curiosity, did you have compression/leakage tests and possibly even an oil sampling performed before purchasing the car and during the service?
yes, and inspected again after delivery to me by a dealer shop which has worked on my Dino, which rated it a solid driver (with an open invitation to do any work it needed - none recommended). I have no doubt the headers were close to the end of their lives... running on the track a bit about four months later probably didn't help much. But it was a hell of a lot of fun! I opted for the major when I noticed things sounding rough and smelling acrid. shop said timing was off and headers were shot. (A year and 2000 miles of so after acquisition. Shoulda bought a car that had been sorted... now I know better!)
I can't comment on the specifics of this situation, but will remind folks that FNA dealers offer 12 months unlimited mileage warranty on their work and parts. Took them up on it when the triple seals leaked on my clutch job 11 months later.
So, so true. I'll be curious if the new cat goes bad in a year or so. I've seen a couple of times now where replacing the cat masks the real problem. The root cause is something else and the cat going bad was the effect.
You have every right to be upset after reading your posts. Most shops have a check list that they use to look over the car before and after a repair. Before the repair, a mechanic will use it to make sure nothing else is wrong that has not be discovered yet. After, a fresh set of eyes such as a service manager or owner will look over the car for quality control. A fluid check would be part of a normal inspection.
I think I'll go with the FNA dealers from here on in. Maybe it's a waste of $$, and they are crazy expensive, but at least they're pretty likely to get it right. Didn't know about the warranty until just now!
The answer to your original question is..... YES- you have a right to be pissed! Hopefully you are all sorted out now and can enjoy some trouble free driving That 355 exhaust note will help let you forget about any past issues!
I think you pissed yourself off by going back there. Do you really have confidence in the major repair when a simple cambolt was not tightened? OK mistakes can happen to anyone but based on your posts the red flag should have been waving long ago. I'd be doing a leakdown on the new rebuild as a minimum. I wonder if you have the old new belts retensioned in the car?
I'm not sure I have the stomach for that. I don't think the shop is incompetent (Berlinetta had a decent rep and have done some major cars) -- just think a tech got sloppy and negligent on some things, and maybe really didn't know 355 issues like he pretended to. The owner knows I am a writer for some national lifestyle magazines and on F-Chat. I can not imagine he would risk screwing up the re-do on the engine. My option was to take the car elsewhere and spend another $20k+ while suing him. Oh, well. Getting a quote for the leakdown test... guess it's better to know than not to know!
My recommendation is that it's time to look at the big picture, let go of the drama and move on. If the car is back together now and performing to your satisfaction, it's time to drive it for a while. All that another round of testing can do is raise more questions and spend more of your money. There really isn't any "good news" that can come from doing a leakdown test now. Considering the variability in results you can get from one person to another, there is almost certainly something that someone can point to as a problem if they're being hired to find one.
I agree with Tim don't listen to me. Enjoy it for what it is and remember at the end of the day it is just a "unit". Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose there are bigger battles to fight. Even if you are not a diy'er it pays to gain the knowledge so that you can converse with your mechanics intelligently. That will also help you to choose one who can meet your needs.
I guess the only reason to do the leakdown test would be to sue the pants off the shop if it comes back bad. I figured while it was there I'd see if the dealer could bypass the seat pot and get the roof to retract using the console switch again, and save me the joy of pulling the seat and probably f*king up the interior while I'm at it. Or maybe I should just forget it until it gets cold and drive the sucker. Hmmm...
There are people who can drive a ferrari on 7 cylinders and not know it. If you leak it down now then you got a baseline for the future and know it is as good as it can be. If it fails now then you got to decide to fish or cut bait. It will be very difficult next year after a few trackdays and 3000miles to come back at the guy and say the car smokes now. If you have marginal leakdown now then the end will only come sooner. If it is good then you get a warm fuzzy feeling and anything else that happens is not his fault. Actually, If I was him I would probably have you come over and witness the leakdown and record the numbers as we did the work then send you on your way and refer you to a new shop that could help you in the future because the relationship is pretty fractured at this point and you both gain nothing by staying together. Alternatively you could be the ignorant owner and with a fresh rebuild sell the problems and start over with a less problematic model but the 355 sound is hard to get out of your head. In some ways the next gen 360 is kind of sterile.
FBB, I think you nailed it. I'm gonna check it out... it's just another day. If it's fine. I'lll drive and be happy. If not, I have a written warranty that gives me the right to have the car repaired correctly at his expense. If he balks, attorney time.After that, I should have a fully sorted car to keep or kiss goodbye. I will probably keep it after all this agita. I don't care for the look, sound or feel of the 360. The 430 is not my cup of tea. The 599 is just too much car for around here. I think the California's back end is fugly. The Italia looks like an insect. If this car goes, I'm getting a new Mas GT Cabrio or the R8 Spider. Probably the Audi -- a car that works!
Ive seen this kind of crap before. If you sue, only the lawyers will win. Better off to drive it and find a better place to have your car worked on. There are not many, believe me. We are lucky up here in Toronto to have a couple of good shops none of them being the stealership.
Using your comparison of the Italia and an insect, I tend to think the Audi looks a little like a crab. But I'd love to own either one! Here's hoping you have great luck with the Ferrari!
