the new Mclaren ........ am i missing some real brakes???!!

I don't quiet understand your point regarding packaging... What do you mean by packaging? I understand packaging as layout/form. So yes the F1 was revolutionary regarding its packaging. It was a 3 seater. and it was mid-engined. So basically the new 12C doesn't really have alot of leeway to be revolutionary in the packaging department. However, the seats are both pushed as close to the center as poissible, so much so that the nav screen isn't a widescreen nav system. its vertical. Also, the A/C controls are mounted on the door panel. Closest we have come to that is the XJ220 with Auxiliary gauges mounted on the door panel.

So in terms of packaging, it isn't revolutionary but how can it now? It is rather inventive though.

I would also say that the 12c doesn't really have much style... just like its former product. Its rather bland and the ferraris are considerably more stylized. I really like the new shape of the 458. But I can't say much bad about the 12Cs shape either.

I would say the the 12c does have some incredible and innovative features that perhaps even the might F1 didn't. The F1 wasn't all that innovative if you think about it. I would say that it wasn't exactly a technological tour deforce other layout and somewhat the materials. Other than that everything other than the airbrake were standard road car just made extremely well. The engine which was outsourced to BMW didn't introduce any new tech... same for the trans... the brakes were standard steel brakes. The car was arguably under-tired perhaps not for the time though. It had no power steering no power brakes, no traction control etc... it was amazing because it was pure (as you said) that was its innovation... not technology.

Now with the 12C...

We have a Mc built engine.... A turbo charged engine that makes significantly more torque than the Ferrari and its available damn near off idle. There is no lag. The transmission is a dual clutch but they took it a step further and gave it the preselector feature which i think is brilliant. Then... the biggest thing of all... the carbon monocoque. No other car in this price range offers this. This is a massive piece of innovation... arguably in packaging as well. The suspension on the car has improved upon the latest and greatest of whats available today... and to the subject of the thread, you can have either the steel brakes or CCs. The steel brakes are more than sufficient for likely most of the owners, and the CCs for anyone who is really tracking there car.

I wouldn't just give the win light to ferrari. I personally think Ferrari is the one who is behind this time around. The 458s performance will likely not be nearly as good as the 12c, and for the same price...

 

To me, packaging is how the features are fitted together to create the entity. In the F1, this meant mapping the cooling airflows, controlling the center of pressure, storage spaces, multiple use elements such as the exhaust acting as a (very expensive) crumple zone, etc., etc.

On the new car, the doors curving inward at the bottom is the only innovative packaging I see, allowing you to enter closer to the center of the car when the door is opened. That center console thinness is pointless overengineering. For what? A 1 cm gain on each side? Explain how that would change anything once a fat American or European jiggles into the seat.

The suspension is great, the tires are great, the individual technology pieces are great. But the way they are packaged together is not really creative or new. Don't ask me how they could have done it better, that's for them to figure out. Looks-wise, too, the car is Lotus evolution, nothing revolutionary.

 

they wouldnt hire you knowing you posted stupid comments about not having "real brakes"