On post #41, are the pins you described included on the bearing? are they the pins which keep the wheel fixed in place and from spinning around?
Posted is a picture of the 430Challenge 600g center bell [required for the larger central diameter] for center lock wheels conversion. These where taken of 430Challenge CCM's. You can fit them to any CCM's from the CS/430 or Scuderia and that way you don't need to modify your original center bells to fit with the center locks wider diameter. As promised (and as suspected) for some sorry reason Ferrari did not use lightweight center bells on the Challenge Stradale. My thinking behind this is that they held back, they already met their project optimization targets and didn't want the CS to be 'too good' around Fiorano because the 360/360Challenge/CS/430/430Challenge/Scud essentially all share the same suspension components (abeit with different springs, arb's, geo and bushes) - didn't want the CS stepping on the toes of future [yet to be released] models. They only wanted the CS to be 'as good' as the 430 lap time around Fiorano, certainly not better. Its quite upsetting really, the engineers went to great lengths to do weight reduction such as titanium wheel lugs/bolts and then the car was saddled with H-E-A-V-Y stainless steel center bells for its CCM brakes, regular led acid battery and other things which would have seen the kerb weight fall even more dramatically. Ofcourse the later 430 Scuderia got the lightweight aluminum ones that the CS 'should' have had all along. Not impressed when marketeers start to control a company like this, literally holding back progress. Anyway, just for comparison, the CS center bells are 1.85kg's, the 430C center bells (SAME CCM's, only larger front discs [shared with Scuderia]) are a mere 600grammes. That's a whopping 5kg's of unsprung weight that can be saved off the car with just using aluminium center bells vs steel. (or 1.25kg's per wheel). Q. Why is unsprung weight so beneficial? It helps with acceleration, cornering and braking and the benefits compared to 'static' weight are the equivalent of x4 weight saving over static parts. So just replacing these center bells with the lightweight ones is the equivalent of shedding some 20kg's of 'regular' weight out of the car. The car will turn, accelerate and brake better. As I mentioned ealier in the thread, I'd heartily recommend Cs owners seeking out used 430 Scuderia CCM's and swapping the center bells over, junking your heavy stainless steel items. You'll gain even sharper handling again. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Nice work Trev, hope the project goes well. I never did weigh those challenge race bells, knew they were lighter ... but not by that much !! let me know if you need the rear bolt set, im 99% sure it was the same as the road ccm's but just in case required they are in my garage somewhere. cant wait to see one of these two project wheel conversions finished.
Luis and Trev, you guys rock !!! It is very nice to see this quality of technical aspects discussed. The Stradale can save 11 lbs just by switching to the Scuderia CCB center bells. That's a lot of unsprung weight saved. Good find. Thanks
trevor, before you get too carried away ref picking up scuderia disc bells....... my info is that you cannot use a CS wheel with a scuderia center bell. the footprint of the wheel mounting face on the CS wheel is larger than the scuderia wheel mounting footprint and so the dish out on the disc bell is a smaller diameter on the scuderia. this means the CS wheel wont press flush against the hub/bell but instead be resting on the dished lip of the bell and will give vibration when driving and loosen off......if you get that far. i know 100% that this occurs from people who have tried. it doesnt work. it seems like it does, the wheel goes on but it doesnt sit against the hub and flat face of the rotor, but merely gets pulled against it with the bolts. as soon as you drive its all over the place. this is why those running scuderia brakes on the CS need to get new disc bells made up. the hub etc is the same so its not a fitment issue, purely a mating one with the brake and the wheel. if you fitted scuderia brakes to a CS..... AND..... ran scuderia wheels you wont need to machine anything. going the other way and running a scuderia wheel on a CS brake setup gives no such problems as the mating face is smaller than the flat on the center bell. i have this on my car.
Thanks for this information, its really valuable. I know a lot of CS owners who will be sad to hear this. So there is no issues for CS owners who fit both Scud center bells AND Scud alloys. What about 16M ultra light weight forged wheels? Do they work with Scud center bells too? Not only would this look fantastic it would be a win win on the weight too. Anyone actually tried that yet?
Great help here Trev, I'm putting center locks on my Scud just as soon as we get a verified parts list. many, many thanks.
David- Those are Novitec NF1 centerlocks and I just sold a set for $3100 including shipping. Trev would hate them, though, because they are very, very heavy. I know because I wrapped and shipped them not too long ago. Taz Terry Phillips
I meant just how the 360 looks with the center locks. I love the wheels that Trev post on the previous picture.
David- I agree with you. Center locks look awesome on just about any high performance car. That is why I bought the NF1s for my Maranello. Unfortunately, NF1s only fit 360s and F430s. The centerlocks on the new Porsche GT2 RS look really good, too. Would much rather have a 599, but the wheels look good. Taz Terry Phillips Image Unavailable, Please Login
Let me tell you that your maranello looks insane with those center locks! Did you add anything elso to such a great car?
David- Unfortunately the NF1 center-locks would not fit my car so I sold them and bought NF2s with five bolts. Weight on a Maranello is not much of a concern with 434 ft lbs of torque. Here is a bigger photo so you can see that it does indeed have five bolts per wheel. Mov'It ceramics next and that will really help unsprung weight and rotating mass. Taz Terry Phillips Image Unavailable, Please Login
looks FANTASTIC!!! any idea of the wgt difference between these challenge wheels and BBS forged magnesium racing wheels? i believe these are 12x18 fr and 13x18 rr. also, do you know if these are available, or can be made in 19's? Image Unavailable, Please Login
The Challenge wheels are now painted like the scuderia wheels and for me they look very good. Last pic is the original color. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Next Monday I will mount Pirelli Triunfo tires,I want to wait 2-3 days after paint. The Roberuta lift kit is mounted,now just waiting for OEM roll bar and then I will test all the mods in the track.
This is one hot setup, I want to do exactly the same thing on my scud. Can you help me with the following: 1) What is the paint code for the scud wheel color? 2) What parts did you have to buy? 3) How long did it take. 4) When you paint the wheel can you save the red BBS logo? Pics of the installation when available and weight difference please.
