I hope Alonso goes into a slump, and Massa over takes him in the points standing to be Ferrari's #1 driver. Then he loses to Hamilton by seven points.
Has Massa applied pressure to Alonso in any way this year? Honestly, I feel that if Massa had gapped Alonso then the Ferrari pits would not have commanded him to move over.
You guys have short memories. Remember the Australian GP. Alonso tried hard to pass but Massa violently closed the door even though his team mate was miles faster. Even Webber has not been that hard to pass ... Alonso then showed team spirit by not causing an accident ... Pete
What nearly everybody is forgetting is that Massa only got in front of Alonso and Vettel because Vettel tried (and nearly succeeded) in puting Alonso in the pit wall. Massa was lucky, that is all, the track opened up clear in front of him and away he went ... Pete
The official classification is based on the order the cars cross the line so one can argue that the result was not changed ie Ferrari 1 & 2
It doesn't matter. At all. With all this talk of rules, is a rule a rule or only if Alonso is involved?
Massa (also) got the better start. That's not merely luck, it's mostly skill. He also had a great start at Silverstone. Guess who he ran into? edit: but I get your point about Vettel. He was hardly questioned about his move by the journalists.
Keep in mind that its tougher to pass a car that is fast where you're fast and slow where you're slow.
But is that a commentary on F1 or on Alonso? Hamilton is also known for doing a lot of passing --- and you don't see him pushing people into the weeds very often. (He just goes there himself to pass, once in a while. ) (I really think Hami would make a good rally driver.) Hami and Button managed to have a pretty good fight for position without leaving a lot of CF bits on the track. Well, that depends on whether you consider nerfing your teammate off the pit entry to be a "legit way". (Alonso is an expensive driver. Ferrari got fined 120K for Alonso's driving in pit lane in China.) But actual contended passes on the track? Zero. Well, I suppose you could argue that it was a contended pass on-track (by Massa) on lap 1 after Alonso's abysmal start in Britain that had Alonso cutting Massa's tire and punting him into the weeds. I did a little review. In Bahrain, Massa out-qualified and out-started Alonso. But after the Red Bull retired, Massa had "temperature issues" and let Alonso by. (A less transparent "code"?) In China, Massa got stacked back out of the points when his change to inters got taken by that move by Alonso. They were running nose to tail when they both got shafted by the SC in Valencia. Massa got mugged on lap 1 in Canada (by the STRs) and in Britain (by Alonso). But then, Alonso didn't do his own race much good at Silverstone, either. Alonso single handedly takes *both* Ferraris out of the points in Britain, and Ferrari *rewards* that by having Massa move aside for him in Germany? I'm not seeing a trend of Alonso notably out-driving Massa this year. I am seeing Alonso make several bad starts. (China, Silverstone.) (We've seen before that Massa makes good starts.) I said it before: Massa's "bad luck" has a name: it's Fernando. ----------------- But putting all that aside. The point is that it's only mid-way through the season. The "no team orders" rule is an abomination, because it *CAN'T* be applied consistently. And it only exists because Ferrari has shown that they can't apply team orders intelligently. When there are four races left and one driver is in a battle for the WDC, then team orders make sense. Heck, you could argue that you shouldn't even need them. The drivers should know the score. But if you're going to have one car *ALWAYS* yield position to the other in every race, then there's not really any point to having two cars in the team. Of course, that's one way to cut costs: have the teams pick the winners, and eliminate all that costly racing out on the track.
If that would have happened in my company, or if I was SF owner, I'd have some words with Massa. There have been lots of team orders in most races and all teams, and this one has been newsworthy just because FM wanted to show that he was upset with the decision. Domenicalli decided it was in the company's best interest that Alonso won the race and the drivers are paid by SF, so, risking a big fine or losing points in the constructors championship just to show how upset he was, is totally unacceptable.
The problem is that a driver who would blithely roll over and obey doesn't have the temperament to cut it in F1. A lot of F1 drivers wouldn't have pulled over period.
Reasonable. The company though should have never made the decision in the first place. They didnt need to exercise that option yet. As a fan you are not getting an honest competition. When you pay 400+euro you should get value and RACING for your money. I expect the 'company' to be smarter about how it handles is less than smart/legal/manipulation(to use and Alonso word) movements on the track. The company is at fault and will be judged accordingly. The world does turn with or without Ferrari.
You are forgetting, the racing is between DIFFERENT TEAMS, not INTRATEAM...the fans got what they paid for. Its only the McMuffin funs that did not like this, since the two Ferraries did not crash into each other. The smart team (this obviously excludes Red Bullet) don't let their teamates take each outher out, and this includes McMuffin too
That's not entirely true at all. The 'sport' offers two different championships - one for team and one for driver. If there wasn't a driver's championship to fight for then there would have been no issue with keeping Alonso in second place where he belonged to finish the race. >8^) ER
Why would you give alonso the penalty? Should he have relinquished his lead after he just passed massa. Would have been a strange race. Watching the the ferrari's letting every one pass them. )))))))))) The Team should be penalized not the drivers. Just my opinion. I voted no penalty, but if they were to penalize, i would think the people placing the orders should be made to pay. No so much the drivers.
Seems like just a couple of weeks ago we were moaning about how unfair the penalty application was when Alonso passed Kubica. Now everyone's Bi**hing about how he wasn't penalized for passing Massa.
If FM is the best and can go faster than his mate, he had lots of time to show it. Otherwise, if he thinks that Ferrari owes more to him than he owes to SF, he shouln't have step over. But IMHO, Massa wouldn't be offered a better seat if he left SF. I doubt any big team would find him a leader position as a driver.
He didn't belong to second place. He was showing lap after lap to be faster than FM, and we all remember the last time two teammates fought earnestly for the lead. SF thought that it was better for them to avoid that kind of ego races, and for me it's Ok. The problem is the reglamentation. If you forbid team rules, you have to forbid teams at all. Otherwise, it's a joke like last Sunday.
He belonged in second place if he was unable to complete a successful pass against his teammate without the assistance he received. I reject the argument that there was no way for him to get past without causing an accident and I was close to furious while watching the 'race' to see that we were going to be denied the benefit of witnessing that action. I tuned in to watch a racing competition not a staged exhibition. If they are going to allow fixed results like this they will lose their fan base rapidly. It has happened before with similar incidents and I've seen comments from several fans after this one that they are ready to switch off if further sanctions are not imposed. Some of you might think that's fine and dandy, but the sport will not survive without its fans and it needs as many as it can get if it is going to prosper. >8^) ER
One thing to consider is that the "team orders" at least had the effect of preventing the two of them from crashing out both cars at the end of the race. Thus, there was more at stake here than the relative drivers points from the team viewpoint.
"He belonged in second place if he was unable to complete a successful pass against his teammate without the assistance he received." I completely agree. The teams, and many here, nonetheless seem to want "team orders" - so perhaps they ought to change the rule. If team orders were "legal," then when Massa pulled over I'd just quietly hope he's being paid lots and lots of Euros to be Alonso's poodle. "Roll over, Felipe! Good Boy, Felipe! Good Boy!!
Seriously??? You know that SF wanted to avoid their ego races? You talk to SF on a daily basis? Doubt it... Anyway, back to reality... What is the point of having a drivers championship if the TEAM (Constructor) is going to dictate WHO should be the champion??? Thats just flat out stupid! Why have a WDC in the first place? I understand that SF may have wanted to avoid them crashing out but isn't that specualtion? or is it race fixing?? Hmmmmmmm
