Firestorm in the press about Ferrari team orders

I'll throw in Flight 800 and the Titanic....

 

Global warming is BS, and no Ferrari weren't involved with 9-11.

Jean Todt got another WDC and McLaren were made to look like the evil ones, mission accomplished I'd say.

The fact that all teams have everybody elses designs already and the information sharing between teams is huge is lost on most people. In a field where millions are spent each year and there are already many crooks involved, do you honestly think this was the first case ... of course not. Infact we already know Toyota used Ferrari designs, but Ferrari didn't care about them because they were slow.

Jean is very clever, and Ferrari have been in F1 since this term for the top form of our sport started ... they thus have the most experience in cheating . Enzo was brilliant at it.
Pete

 

Alonso has as much grace and style as a two year old wanting a piece of candy.

I don't see how he projects the proper image for Ferrari.

Sure you want to win, but honor and integrity has it's place and it's up to Ferrari to show how they want their brand portrayed.

Good job Massa... I commend your grace under adversity.

 

how Ferrari want their 'brand' portrayed is as WDC and WCC winners. end of.

 

you seriously think our beloved Scuderia has an on the wings of an angel history? if so, i want what YOU are on

 

I think Germany shows very poor management at Ferrari. If everybody including Massa were in agreement about driver status, this poorly executed team order would never have happened that way.

In the recent past - when team orders were outlawed - Ferrari did execute driver switches on the track - or in the pitlane - when one of the two was mathematically out. Everybody knew what was happening, even the audience, but nobody complained.

People now are complaining that yes, Massa wasn't mathematically out of the race (just like Rubens in Austria) and the move was too obvious. The last part shows poor team management. And Massa doesn't deserve to be treated like that, because he has shown he can defend Ferrari's honours when the so called #1 driver fails to do so. He should have more credit at Ferrari.
If I were him I would go to Sauber.

 

Amen.


LetsJet, you are so wrong it is rediculous. Ferrari F1 has no honour or integrity, they just want to win.

Lets review some history:
1. In the 60's Enzo had the last race of the sportscar series cancelled so the GTO would beat the Cobra. If he had honour he would have wanted to win on the track.
2. He had the GTO homologated as a slightly modified SWB, absolute BS and then never made the correct numbers.
3. He tried to get the LM homologated as a slightly modified GTO, the FIA told him to fnck off and rightly so.
4. I'm sure there are plenty of earlier F1 stories but I cannot think of them now so lets jump to the Michael Schumacher period. Ferrari hired a driver who in 1994 won his first WDC by crashing deliberately into Damon Hill and taking them both out of the race.
5. Not content with doing that in another car MS then attempted the same to JV in 1997, and even though he lost all his points for that season was NOT sacked by Ferrari.
6. Ferrari then with the help of the FIA skirted the rule book for many years (size of barge boards, etc.) until they finally won again in 2000.
7. Ferrari then continued, even though they had won again, to have blatent anti-sporting team orders where MS's team mate was not even allowed to race against him and more dis-honestly was used to hold the rest of the field up on many occasions. Disgraceful.
8. Michael drove Frentzen off the track at Montreal in a horrible bit of driving, Ferrari never blinked and eye lid, and thankfully Frentzen was not hurt.
9. Ferrari won a British GP by finishing the race in the pits with MS having his stop go penalty on his very last race ... no honour there, just clever rule bending. Note MS and Ferrari had already broken the rules to have to serve this penalty.
10. Michael parks his car at Monaco fncking Alonso's pole chances, Ferrari did not tell him off at all but supported his lies.
11. ...


Honestly if pushing their grandmothers out of a moving car would guarantee another race win, each team member would happily do it ...
Pete

 

I think Alonso is a great driver and represents the Scuderia perfectly. He's a driver for a legendary race team, he's not a role model. These guys need to reach out and take what's theirs. And the Ferrari brand? Ferraris brand position is winning and when we add things like character and being graceful under adversity into driver requirements, we ruin, not further the brand position of Ferrari. I understand wanting to like Massa more, he is a really nice guy, which, unfortunately has nothing to do with winning races.

 

Massa wouldn't. And that is precisely why he should be a test driver or at another team.

 

He had no problems dealing with Kimi. Felipe has nothing to be ashamed of as a driver. He wears red. The color and team others aspire to. MS has him on his speed dial(nice to have MS as a friend). He has earned his drive in F1 with Ferrari. Have another drink.

 

And what a "friend" MS is to Massa was clearly visible at the Canadian GP: After he already blocked (legally) Massa's attempt at passing he used unnecessary roughness to squeeze Massa out of bounds.

 

I think LdM said it best, its better than having both drivers take each other out.

Ferrari should have used more code like "SAVE FUEL". Retards..

 

+1

 

this is just a personal opinion, based on hate about a person. Ws get it- you don't like Schumi. No one on here has delusions of Ferrari being purer than holly water and innocent angels, but all the examples you have given can be found about pretty much any team and most drivers.
You are pulling examples from the 15 year long career of the most succesfull driver in the sport. In comparison the Hamster has probably more contravercial moves in just 3 and a halp seasons. So he should be sacked from McLaren and not hired by anyone in F1 by what you are saying. Complete absurdity.

 

LOL
Well cover me in egg and flour and bake me for 14 minutes!, thats the most ridiclous thing I have read on here for a while, well done.

But if it makes you happy go for it..

 

Isn't that his point? He's basically refuting the perception Ferrari is above reproach, and it's the fault of individuals like Alonso when the Scuderia is brought into shame.

What's ridiculous about all of this is the misconception that F1 generally has a long history of Gentleman Champions when the reality is those drivers haven't faired particularly well the past 40-50 years. The biggest difference is the heightened level of scrutiny that has taken us behind doors that were once closed, and a sport that plays for much higher stakes than in its earlier years. A driver like Jenson Button, who as best I can tell is a good guy, is the exception rather than the rule these days.

 

As far as contraversy they are pretty even.
As for LewHam being fired, it is ridiculous. That was the whole point. If MS sould have been fired for trying to win at all cost in '97, then Lewham had to be fired for loosing the title i '07

 

Hami didn't blow it but the team did:
Shanghai kept him out too long until the tires were gone
Brazil they gave him one more pitstop

 

+1
Spot on.

 

This argument has been discussed on here before. It is ultimately the drivers call if to stay out on his shot tires. And how conviniently forgotten is, that Hambone hit the rev limiter in the middle of the track by mistake and got passed by like six cars.

 

True dat.

I actually did forget that part. Thanks for reminding us, you have a point.

 

Was this in his rookie season?

 

Yup..on par with 2 x WDC humongous pressure no biggie..

 

Hamilton had an incredible rookie season it's got to be said and held his own amazingly well against a 2 X WDC, of that I have no problem at all.

However, to this day he will not admit that he made a mistake in Brazil and hit the pitlane limiter, despite the onboard footage showing otherwise. If he'd admitted at the time: "I made a mistake on the steering wheel mid corner and its cost me massively!", I'd have a lot more respect for him.

As for:

But as the driver fighting for the WDC, he should have ignored the team and come down the pitlane, forcing them to do the pitstop regardless. The team didn't really have a clue how shot those tyres were, Hamilton did because he could physically feel them.
What would Schumacher, Senna, Prost etc., have done in those circumstances?.

Yes Hamilton was a rookie that year, but even today, he still relies too much on the team making critical decisions rather than trusting his instincts because he is too scared to go against the team.

Anyway, back on topic:

Ever consider that perhaps Ferrari did have a better code to arrange the position change but Rob Smedley decided not to use it and to make a more blatant and obvious call to ensure that the world could see exactly what was really going on?.

ever consider that he knew this situation might happen and told Massa if it did, to be blatant about the manouevre?.

Why would they do this?, because they were upset that Ferrari are now backing Alonso as their best chance to win the WDC rather than Massa.

And why are Ferrari doing that?. Because over the season, Alonso has been much the better racer of the two, he's shown he can manage the tyres better than Massa, he doesn't lose his head when things go wrong like Massa does and they've paid alot of money to get Alonso in order to win the WDC with him.
I've said it before and I stand by the statement: Over a season, Alonso will naturally dominate Massa because he is that bit better!.

Sorry to all the Massa fans on here, but he's not a good a driver as Alonso. Massa had a great race in Germany, and yes, maybe he deserved the win. However, had Ferrari not made the decision it did, there is still no guarantee that Massa would have finished ahead of Alonso.
Massa has had one good race and how many mediocre/poor races?. Now do the same comparision for Alonso. How many fightbacks has Massa performed in races when things have gone wrong compared to Alonso?.

To finish, I come back to one of the things that bugs Me most about all the fuss being made about this situation, and that is that had Ferrari been more devious about what they were doing and arranged for Massa to "run wide" or "lock up" at the hairpin to perform the manouevre, then there would have been no real issue.

Martin Brundle amongst many others have made this exact statement. Basically Ferrari were too honest about it and somehow that is more disrespectful to the fans than lying to them and pretending something has happened that hasn't really (like all the other teams do!).


Apparantly it's okay to have Team orders as long as you hide them well enough to decieve the fans, the FIA, the journalists and anybody else who might be watching.

Be open and honest about it though and that puts you on a par with Hitler it seems!.

I truly live in a strange world where dishonesty is good!.

 

Nail meet head.