Mclaren group in debt

I am not sure you can buy a name and connect your cars with a 70 year gap (or whatever it is). Yes Bugatti had an amazing history and i would love to have a Type 39, but I don't think the Veyron is part of it at all.

 

That's all great.

Check the price of an F40 vs. what it cost new.

Check the price of an Enzo vs. what it cost new.

Check the price of an F50 vs. what it cost new.

Then check the price of a McLaren F1 vs. what it cost new.

It's clear what the most desirable car is. These companies race to sell cars.... Ferrari are great at relatively high volume production of very specialized cars. But when it comes to supercars, I wouldn't put anything from Ferrari in the class of the F1.

And I realize there are some rare old Ferraris that command a higher price, but McLaren wasn't making cars back then - so I am not sure it's comparable.

We shall see how the market treats the MP4-12C. I have a feeling they will be a lot harder to get and sought after than a Ferrari 458... it's a different kind of car, IMO.

 

+1. This is my view 100 per cent. That is also the same way I view the new Lotus F1 team without Colin or any of the old crew around...

Just because you buy the name...doesn't automatically buy you the heritage as well...

Frank

 

MP4-12C is a different cat to the F1. They made 100 F1's and rarity is reflected in current value. They plan on making 6500 MP4-12C's. Dealership and support is key to this car. Owners will be from a different market than the F1, and won't be sending the car back to Woking to change the oil and swap a light bulb.

They will be stamping out, er...autoclaving out 6500 of these things and that will play a huge part in their value down the road.

 

I know Clive Chapman and one of Jim Clark's mechanics who still works on the Lotus F1 cars at Classic Team Lotus with him. I am a huge Lotus fan and I own the first 2-Eleven that Lotus made and even I my pulse did not rise a beat for Lotus 500th GP...

 

Yes, the MP4-12C is a different kind of car to the F1, but I'm saying the McLaren name on a road car is right at the top of the peking order... it's not Spyker or Saleen or some other POS - it's up there with the likes of Zonda. And I think a lot of people will be interested in a supercar with the McLaren name on it and the McLaren engineering behind it.

It's very un-PC to say on here but in some of the other forums the folks who are in the know will readily acknowledge that Ferrari comes up short in many ways on engineering of their road cars in many respects. McLaren are known for their engineering. If they can make a car that really is a class above, I think it will sell well. And the McLaren name will be a help rather than a hindrance.

As for the future value, it is way too early to tell. Look at how the Gallardo 560 holds up against the Ferrari 458 (as in, it doesn't). It is a fickle market but only time will tell how the future value of the McLaren will look.

 

I agree that McLaren are up at the top with the very best, and their engineering is really something else. I also agree that it's a fickle market. Look at the McLaren SLR for instance. An excellent car, but already largely forgotten. Porsche know this too, as the line for the GT was a LOT shorter than they'd hoped.

Lambo must be in a cold sweat, because their Gallardo market will evaporate as soon as this hits the road.

 

Difference is that McLaren made money on the SLR. Mercedes may have lost money but Dennis got paid up front for design.
Underestimate Ron at your peril

 

There's still a Gallardo market? I thought it went away in 2008?

Funny you mention the SLR. I know 3 guys who bought them and say it's the most underappreciated supercar out there. But people just thought of it as an overpriced Mercedes. I think McLaren may hit the nail on the head with the MP4-12C. I *think* they know what they need to do. Time will tell... I have time to save my pennies, and dimes, and nickels, and quarters until they start rolling out.

 

It's nice to see them being honest by actually painting their road car Penis colored for that article.

 

Wow that thing looks boring...

 

If your netherparts are that color, I'd suggest a visit to a doctor.

 

Compared to most current super cars that look like they're designed to appeal to pre-adolescent magpies with ADD, yes.

 

I think you both have a point.

Ferrari's are more art than science.

McLaren's are more science than art.

Both can be equally appreciated for what they are.

 

?

Elaborate on which ones? This thing looks like Lotus Evora. SNOOZER!

http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/lotus-evora-img_1.jpg

http://www.jdpower.com/images/vehicles/jdpa/2011/mclaren/mp412c/480/11-mclaren-mp412c-01.jpg

Seriously, the car is heinously bland...

 

What McLaren has not taken into account is still how shallow (and crowded) this end of the pool is. Sure there going to sell some cars, but I doubt that they will be able to sell everyone they plan on making. Even Bugatti is behind on target right now. The F1 road car sold what, 65 street examples? I'm sure that the original target was much higher than that.

Lather, rinse, repeat...

 

Funny you should mention the Evora. The 458 side profile is a total ripoff of the Lotus Evora.

 

Who said anything about the 458?

 

I did

This is Ferrari chat, the 458 is a Ferrari and it looks like an Evora and you said the McLaren looks like an Evora. Everything comes back to Lotus and Lotus is run by a bunch of Ferrari guys now so I guess it all makes perfect sense

 

I'm not a big fan of the 458 either...I think the aging LP560-4 design looks far better than both. That exhaust on the McLaren is especially horrendous.

 

I saw a whole lot of Italian cars today. Most were beautiful. Some screamed at me, others whispered seductively.
Its a matter of taste.

 

Add a Tesla to the mix.
http://www.hypermileclub.com/images/tesla_roadster1_440.jpg

The 458 seems too look different than the trifecta of bland that has been presented thus far.

http://pitstopbrasil.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/f458.jpg

 

The Tesla is made by Lotus...

 

Point?

 

And that photograph has been altered - the images below show the actual color of the car, called Volcano Orange.

Not my favorite, but McLaren seem to have adopted it as one of their signature colors now. There are three McLaren F1s painted in a similar hue including the very last road car (#075) that is owned by Mansour Ojjeh. Through his company the TAG Group he holds an equal 15% stake in the McLaren Group that Ron Dennis does. His brother originally chose the paint color for #075 matching it against a bottle of french dessert wine called Chateau d Yquem.

>8^)
ER
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