September 8: Ferrari Goes Before WMSC

The hearing is being held in Sept. By then the hew and cry will have quieted and nothing will come of it. Just as it should.

 

Was it Ferrari or was it Massa or both?

Massa could have went wide, or pitted for new tires, etc.

Ferrari could have said over the radio, "Your brakes are getting hot", or "Conserve fuel, we wont make it to the finish."

Maybe they are getting tired of playing that game.

 

You never know, but I do hope that sanity prevails.
There's a first time for everything

 

Despite the sanctimonious bleating from the FIA Ferrari's sin was not violating the prohibition against team orders. As we saw during the restart Sunday team orders are alive and well in F1. As they should be.
The Scuderia's sin was to make the hypocrisy evident to the world by making such a fist of it.
Todt would have to be an idiot not to jump at the chance to recuse himself. This affair holds no honor for anyone involved.

 

If they do not take the WDC points off the Ferrari drivers then effectively they are only giving Ferrari a $'s based fine, ie. the WCC is only for the teams money. Lets face it fining a team $'s means nothing, and taking away their WCC only means they loose some more $'s because NOBODY gives a fnck who wins the WCC except the teams for the $'s Bernie gives out.

Thus if the FIA decide to penalise Ferrari they have to take the WDC points away, and it also makes the most sense because Ferrari played the team order game to benefit their WDC challenge as the WCC points would not change no matter who was first and second.

Personally Ferrari broke the rules and thus should be penalised and that means WDC points have to go. And after Mark Webber I would like Alonso to win the WDC ... so I am not playing anti-Ferrari with these comments.

The FIA have to show they have teeth and mean business, otherwise what is the point of having rules?

The time for Ferrari, or any team, to debate the allowance of team orders was not in a race but like a man before the season started. This is the only reason I can think of for why they did it so obvious and once they loose their WDC points they will be sorry and feel very stupid ... grow a set and go and chat to Todt and get them removed for the 2011 season.
Pete
ps: Ferrari were stupid to do this, they should have let Massa win and Alonso come second as second place points are far better than 0.

 

Waste of time, no penalty should be issued, whole thing is stupid polemics. Ferrari were absolutely correct with the outcome.

 

Except that there is a rule that forbids team orders ...

If no penalty is issued the FIA have been shown to be toothless. Next we will have teams turning up with 3 litre engines ...
Pete

 

You're going to be very frustrated in the coming years.

 

http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=41717

"if you can't pass at Hockeheim, you should be in another line of work like flower arranging..."

Worth a read. Author is obviously hoping Ferrari are dealt with harshly.

 

McLarens penalty for cheating Red Bull of pole position in Canada by deliberately under fuelling Hamiltons car on it's final qualifying run was a paltry $10,000 fine.

No lose of the pole position that was achieved unfairly. No lose of any Championship points for unsportsmanlike conduct!.

So, based on your recomendation it looks like the FIA owe Ferrari $90,000!.

 

I say again, was it Ferrari?, or was it a p****d off Rob Smedley and Filipe Massa who wanted to drop Ferrari in the s**t by making things more obvious than they needed to be?.

As for your final remark, it's well known that they have never agreed with the banning of team orders as they well know, it never went away for any of the teams.



Turkish GP this year anyone?:

Lewis Hamilton on the radio: "Will Jenson try to overtake me?"
Race engineer: "No, Jenson will not overtake you!"

Shortly afterwards Jenson passes Hamilton and then Hamilton gets back past Jenson, after which Jenson starts getting messages of:

Race engineer: "Jenson conserve fuel, conserve fuel!"
followed by:
Race engineer: "Jenson, your fuel is now critical, you cannot finish the race at this pace, you will run out of fuel before the end of the race, we need to conserve fuel!"

Hamilton meanwhile was not being warned of any fuel issues for him.

At the end of the race, the remaining fuel is measured and Hamilton had enough fuel for another half a lap and that's it.
Jenson on the other hand only had enough fuel left to do another three laps!.

Make of that what you will!

 

The way it should be done, by not making a mockery of the system.

It aint rocket science unless your out to prove a point.

 

But is not cheating the fans of a head to head race just as much and lying to the fans at the same time?

 

I get your point, but in a team sport situation things are a little different. You're an individual driver, but you're part of a team and expected to toe the team's line. But using the free will angle, it's interesting to question what the driver responsibility is in a situation like this. As the rules currently stand, team orders are illegal which would make the drivers engaging in them complicit to some degree. Using an extreme example, Piquet Jr. should have stood up to Renault when it was "requested" he intentionally crash. Drivers are all aware of the rules governing team orders, so in the heat of competition can the FIA expect them (in this case, Alonso and/or Massa) to challenge a request for manipulating positions on the fly?

If Massa and his #2 complex had thought ahead, he should have denied the request and forced Alonso to either pass him legit or stay behind. When the fallout came, he could play the card of protecting the team from FIA sanctions (whether privately or publicly), knowing full well what they requested was against the rules.

 

I'm not saying its right or wrong, taking the p!ss is wrong, Ferrari did enough of that crap with MS.

That is why they enforced the rule to begin with.
If Todt is out to clean the sport up and make it more transparent to the average fan, well he has got to show he is doing something about it.

If you are in denial that the average fan did not like what they saw well so be it.

It makes the sport look a joke thats the problem, not the actual team orders.

 

Pointing out that the emperor has no clothes is never popular
Honest but unpopular.

 

You never make friends pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.
Ferrari embarrassed the FIA by pointing out the hypocrisy and for that they are paying.
The rest is posturing and BS.

 

I'm not in denial that the average fan didn't like what they saw at all, but I am dissapointed that the average fans are happy to turn a blind eye to other teams doing the exact same thing, only more dishonestly.

I'm dissapointed that the average fan has completely failed to understand what the teams are racing for. Is the prize at the end of the season happy fans?, no, it's a World Championship title that they have invested hundreds of millions of dollars to win.

As for:

Hang on a minute, surely Ferrari were more transparent about what they were doing compared to other teams who use deception to achieve the same goal?. The fans weren't duped as to what was going on. It wasn't something that they couldn't work out. They weren't lied to.

If Jean todt wants to totally rule out any team using team orders in the future, the only way he'll achieve it is to completely ban all communication with the driver, both radios and pitboards.
As long as teams communicate with their drivers, they'll instigate team orders as and when required, one way or another.


The thing that turns the sport into a joke for Me is the hypocrisy that exists when it comes to team orders in F1. Everybody knows they exist in every team, even Jean Todt, and those that are dishonest about it, get away with it while those that are honest about it, gets punished. That's a great lesson to teach people: Honesty doesn't pay!

 

I hear you no problem, Ferrari made it transparent they were breaking the rules. Good for them, it achieved sweet FA.. in public perception of the sport, I got told to sell my Ferrari by numerous folk, and if you watched Top Gear the other day, they encouraged scorn on the owners..yes light hearted but it still struck a chord.

I agree there is hyprocrisy with team orders, and we have seen what happens when a driver doesn't play the game, or like the role of #2 with Vettel and Webber.

Its a tricky one to sort out, no easy fix I'm afraid, but the rules are the rules, so the teams IMO have to be seen to abiding by them, not taking the p!ss like the MS and Rubens days.

 

But that cheating English bastard Hamilton kept his points after he had driven around in a stolen car for an entire season.

 

The imposition of the ban on 'TEAM RULES" was a knee jerk reaction to a specific incident.
Once again we see how we act in haste and repent in leisure.

I find it a bit odd that some folks who decry intrusive government when it comes to their personal freedoms think that in sport corrective legislation is the answer.

 

LOL! That's a terrifically funny reply, Cozmic and I can appreciate where you're coming from.

Although, McLaren did lose their constructor points though and I think Hamilton was far more innocent than Alonso in that whole affair, although both received amnesty from the FIA.

Interesting how controversy follows Alonso about, isn't it? McLaren spying scandal, sabotaging his team-mate's pit stops at McLaren by blocking the pit space, Renault crashing scandal, Ferrari team orders scandal, always whining on the radio, etc... the guy can hustle a car around the track but he's got a lot of baggage that comes with him.

All the best,
Andrew.